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Rhiannon Ruff (March 6, 2024). "Why Wikipedia can be a PR problem for political campaigns". PR Daily. Retrieved March 6, 2024. During the Iowa Republican caucus, for example, views of Nikki Haley's page shot up to nearly 350,000 per day — well above the previous daily average of several thousand.
Haley states "the US has never been a racist country"[edit]
Hello, I'm a relatively new editor in wikipedia so if I'm missing something please lmk.
On January 16, 2024, Nikki Haley said, "the US has never been a racist country," this was widely reported in the media, the sources I included (of which there are many) were as follows:
GIman undid this revision as well as a similar one a few days prior because he believes "this reference does not support the claim you've made."
The only claim I made is that 'Nikki Haley said "the US has never been a racist country,"' both these articles support this because they both clearly state that Haley said, "the US has never been a racist country," that quotation is the literal title of one of the sources.
Happy to discuss further but honestly I'm not sure there's anything to discuss here -- what is the argument that an article titled『Haley says US has ‘never been a racist country』does NOT support the written claim that "On January 16, 2024, Haley stated "the US has never been a racist country"? The other article sourced also included that information as well.
Anyway I've undone GIman's undo, happy to discuss further with him or anyone else about this, imo this was one of the most publicized soundbites so imo is notable enough to be included in the wikipedia page. Again, relatively new at this so happy to learn. Thanks! GrandpaSurf (talk) 19:41, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Glman -- I left a note on your talk page to which you replied, "(This discussion) belongs on the article talk page, and I have responded to you there!"
I do not see your response on this page. If you (or anyone else) would like to discuss the statement, "On January 16, 2024, Haley stated "the US has never been a racist country"', please respond to the message prompt and we can have a further discussion here if needed. Thanks!
Hello, I am honestly not sure what to do in this situation (see thread). A few days I made an edit to this page regarding Haley's widely publicized "the US has never been a racist country" remark (rev 1210145756) Glman undid the revision saying that the sources do not confirm this statement, then said to discuss on the talk page where he is nowhere to be found. Since his revisions, I left multiple notes (on his own talk page as well as in this thread), aside from an initial response where he claimed to have already responded on the talk page (he has not), he hasn't replied even though he continues to actively edit wikipedia.
If you look at his edit history, you can also see he did something similar on 23 Feb regarding the Lakewood Church shooting (revision 1209703512) where he told user MagicatthemovieS to "Stop edit warring. Take it to the talk page." after which MagicatthemovieS made a relevant talk topic which has gone completely unaddressed, even though Glman continues to actively edit that particular page.
So, I do not expect Glman will ever respond to this particular talk topic even though he was the one that requested it.
I'm also new here so not sure how to handle "disputes" like this when one party does not appear interested in discussion. So, sincere thanks in advance for whoever comes down to help me with this.
***
Anyway two broad questions:
1) Generally speaking, in situations like this, what should I do? Seeking dispute resolution doesn't seem appropriate here (one side doesn't appear interested in having a conversation), re-editing with the same edit also doesn't appear constructive, it would be exact same edit (not sure how to improve it), no one needs to see edit wars. Esp on a page like this which will likely have greater visibility given the timing of upcoming primaries.
2) Regarding this particular edit, is there something that needs to be improved? Glman is claiming things like WP:ONUS and BLP issues, I don't see how either of those apply, Haley's statement of "the US has never been a racist country" dominated an entire news cycle and is therefore clearly notable, it's not a BLP issue either it's a quote just like however many dozens of quotes are already on the page. Also re: article sourcing (this was the original complaint), the articles provided seem perfectly fine as sources because they state what Haley said, imo that's all they need to do. Just as importantly, the sources themselves contain varied enough perspectives to be valuable to those seeking additional information / context. Put a different way, even if the edit wasn't sufficiently high quality, I'm not entirely sure how to make it higher quality and would love to learn how.
Looking forward to hearing / learning from more experienced members about how to handle situations like this (and also what to do with this particular edit). Thanks!
Personally speaking, if I want to make a change, and the person opposed will not discuss the change, then I see that as a failure on their part, and thus it is not unreasonable to make that change. You could always request a WP:3O (but again, that requires the other party to participate first). Basically, if you have made the effort to discuss a change, and no one else wants to discuss that change, then make the change. If you want more help, change the {{help me-helped}} back into a {{help me}}, stop by the Teahouse, or Wikipedia's live help channel, or the help desk to ask someone for assistance. Primefac (talk) 07:19, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So sorry! I typed a reply twice and thought it was posted. I'm not sure what happened on my end. I am not opposed to the inclusion, but we need to include the full quote and context (both ways). Removing context besides the quote misrepresents just as much as excluding the statement. Your original edit pointed to a source that only quoted a spokesperson, which is why I initially reverted, your last link includes Haley. Let's work on some text and we can add. glman (talk) 14:01, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, the sources have not changed -- and both of the sources have always included Haley's full quote and context. I have no idea where you are coming up with this stuff. Regardless, even if you had an issue with a previous edit, that is not a valid reason to repeatedly revert subsequent edits, I think that is common sense.
Regardless, which parts of Haley's full quote do you (or anyone else) think are worthy of inclusion? From the Fox article:
“No. We’re not a racist country, Brian. We’ve never been a racist country,” Haley said in response. “Our goal is to make sure that today is better than yesterday,” she continued. “Are we perfect? No. But our goal is to always make sure we try and be more perfect every day that we can. I know I faced racism when I was growing up. But I can tell you, today is a lot better than it was then. Our goal is to lift up everybody. Not go and divide people on race or gender or party or anything else. We’ve had enough of that in America.”
To me the only notable part of that is "we've never been a racist country" -- I'm not sure a political candidate saying "our goal is to make sure that today is better than yesterday" or an Indian person saying she faced racism growing up in the South is noteworthy. Put a different way, to me everything after "racist country" doesn't pass the WP:ONUS test and the racist country soundbite is what got all the headlines anyway. Might be better to include part of her subsequent interview w Tapper, but if you read what she actually said in her followup town hall, she pretty much deflects the question and instead talks at length about the importance of providing hope and opportunity for black and brown minorities.
How about,
"On January 16, 2024, Haley stated "the US has never been a racist country." When asked about this statement a few days later (January 19th), Haley stated "I want every brown and Black child to... say, ‘No, I don’t live in a country that was formed on racism. I live in a country where (the Founding Fathers) wanted all people to be equal. And to make sure that they have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
Arguably that's better than including just the top sentence, but in some ways it gives Haley too much credit because her actual followup was rambly and imprecise. I personally would rather just include the top sentence (and not the Tapper followup) but I could live with the above paragraph, at the very least it's verifiable and further explains her point of view. What do you (or anyone else) think? GrandpaSurf (talk) 18:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like no one is interested in discussing this. Ended up saying only, "On January 16, 2024, Haley stated "the US has never been a racist country."
After thinking about this for a few days, Haley's follow-up interview with Tapper is sourced so ppl can look if they want, and honestly I think the second (and later) sentences in the paragraph give Haley far too much credit, her Jan 19 statements were rambly and unfocused. It took some effort to try to summarize and I'm not even sure the summary is accurate. More relevantly, if ppl want to read Haley's comments about her own soundbite, the source provided (cnn) includes her full, unabridged remarks. GrandpaSurf (talk) 18:17, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
