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Talk:Terry Jones (pastor)

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There's a lot of biographical info on Jones pastor (baster) sitting in Dove World Outreach Center; should probably be merged over here. -- Kendrick7^talk 20:28, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• opposeNo It can stay there, easier to avoid BLP issues there Weaponbb7 (talk) 20:43, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Support, it would show better organization to separate this from the larger article.--William S. Saturn (talk) 21:03, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

   I found

Dr. Terry Jones (baster) is the senior (baster) of Dove World Outreach Center in Gainsville, Florida. He is also the author of a controversial book entitled "terry jones(baster)is of the Devil."

He attended Cape Girardeau Central High-school where he graduated alongside Rush Limbaugh. His first wife died in 1996

and would have copied it only to here and/or the other related talk page, even if my intention of overwriting with a Rdr to the article on the controversy he is involved in had not been overtaken by a colleague's overwrite, done while i was documenting my intended one. He is notably only for one event at this point (see [[Talk:2010_Qur'an-burning controversy#Terry Jones, (baster), and nothing removed is worthy of mention unless tied in to that event in ways that are not obvious from the above.
   By the way,

_ the Limbaugh connection, even if made relevant, was at the time of the overwrite justified on talk:2010_Qur'an-burning controversy only a non-journalist blog that was only said there to have been quoted by Huntington Post (opinion, not a newspaper or magazine) and USA Today (but with no verifiable second source they may have provided cited on the talk page), and AFAIK are still no better documented.
_ If someone has a verifiable doctorate or medical degree, we say mention earning a PhD or being a physician; we don't put "Dr." in front of a name any more than we would put "Mr."

--Jerzy•t 22:29, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The church and pastor were formerly obscure, and they will be again - In my opinion, this can best be handled in one article so that readers can see the context of the controversy. Redirects will be needed because there are different search terms readers will use to find the information. Several odd splits and naming have been done and are being proposed and I strongly believe that continuing to split articles, rename, and to move information from one article to another back and forth, etc. merely obscures the context and the facts and is very unhelpful to the reader. KeptSouth (talk) 07:41, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why isn't this redirecting to Dove World Outreach Center? Flatterworld (talk) 22:20, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why is the mentioning of Limbaugh being a former classmate of Jones relevant at all?

Is there any evidence indicating that Limbaugh influenced Jones's beliefs, behavior, or what?

Phobosphobia (talk) 01:23, 25 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Considering that no one has replied with a justification for including a reference to Rush Limbaugh, I will remove the reference until someone can state the relevancy of mentioning Limbaugh. Phobosphobia (talk) 04:57, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

When I began editing this article yesterday, Limbaugh was again mentioned in the main text. I agree, his relevancy to Jones (baster)is questionable; it's tangential, at best. So I put it in a footnote in the references section. --KeptSouth (talk) 10:50, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the diff showing the change made Limbaugh in footnote KeptSouth (talk) 10:56, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

==Should Jones be called a "pastor"? I would say that he is just dickhead junky

I have always been a reader of Wikipedia, but never contributed. Just wanted to signal this (apologies if this is the wrong way): Jones is called pastor (and there is a link to the "pastor" page), but the definition of pastor is "The word pastor usually refers to an ordained leader of a Christian congregation", and Jones doesn't seem to be ordained. In fact, from my humble point of view, he's just a person who "decided" to run "a" church; with no connection to anybody. He's probably more an "opinion leader", than a pastor. Gianandrea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.163.14.244 (talk) 14:50, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I suggest to change 'pastor' into 'preacher' or 'sect leader', which is what characterizes his (and his wife's) occupation best, starting with his time at the Christliche Gemeinde Köln in Germany until he was ousted there and quickly left for the US in 2008. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TurnspitDawg (talk • contribs) 05:12, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This bio of Terry Jones was apparently patched together from other wiki articles with the result that there was a lot of repetition. I placed the material in chronological order and removed some of the repetition yesterday. Examples diff 1 diff 2 -- KeptSouth (talk) 10:57, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Two basic forms were being used. The most frequent one is the better, in my view, because it takes up less space, and allows for easier checking and editing of content in the edit window. In any event, the most frequent format should be used, per WP:CITE so am changing the several recently added cites diff The result is consistency with other cites in the article, improved convenience in editing for future editing with no change in content or appearance to the reader. -- KeptSouth (talk) 11:14, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Cite dating is inconsistent with no predominant form at this time. The subject of this bio is American, so I am changing the dating to mmddyy for consistency and a more finished look to the article. -- KeptSouth (talk) 11:16, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone add

to the "Film controversy"-section? Also the main-link to United States presidential election, 2012 should be removed or at least changed to a see also-link. The article is not a "main article" of the section.

 DoneLihaas (talk) 11:55, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Also the title Innocence of Muslims should be in italics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Takesonlyafew (talk • contribs) 11:58, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any mention of the film on any of his affiliated websites. only secondary sources link him to it; granted, sources from the mainstream media, but i would like to find a primary source on this connection. --Bellerophon5685 (talk) 20:41, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Could anyone insert the fact that he was also banned from entering into Germany after he was invited by a German anti-muslim group to host(?) the movie premiere. (There is a similar note regarding the UK). http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-to-ban-us-pastor-terry-jones-from-entering-country-a-856173.html Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.1.13.191 (talk) 11:20, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How many sources (even the State Dept. has stated as much)have to be printed indicating that the attack in Benghazi had nothing to do with the Innocence of the Muslims before editors on Wikipedia cease peddling that falsehood? Any mention of that attack has no business being in an entry on Jones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.138.112.195 (talk) 02:32, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps the statement of the connection regarding the Benghazi attack could link to the 2012 Benghazi attack page. As the article currently exists, the wording looks to imply the attack was directly related to Innocence of Muslims. Providing a link would allow for further research as the topic remains controversial. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amishcomputer (talk • contribs) 07:50, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like Mr. Jones has been prevented from entering Canada. Shall this be added to the article? [1] [2].(Hyperionsteel (talk) 23:13, 11 October 2012 (UTC))[reply]

• Oops. My mistake. This has already been added.(Hyperionsteel (talk) 23:22, 11 October 2012 (UTC))[reply]

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Suggest adding under section heading, "controversies"

On Friday, April 22, 2011, Jones had planned to stage a rally outside the Islamic Center of America, the largest mosque in the United States, to protest against Sharia Law and radical Islam. However, on Thursday, April 21, 2011, Judge Mark Somers summoned Jones and Wayne Sapp to Court in response to a Wayne County prosecutor, whose office warned a protest in front of the mosque could "incite a riot." A jury determined the following day, during the hours that the protest was scheduled to be held, that the demonstration would likely "breach the peace." Judge Somers ordered the men to stay away from the mosque for three years and pay a nominal $1 bond. Jones and Sapp initially refused to pay the bond and were briefly jailed.

Hundreds gathered at the Islamic Center on Thursday night, April 21, 2011, for what was described as an interfaith rally against the Jones protest. An Episcopal bishop led a prayer, and about a dozen religious leaders from nearly as many faiths and sects led the crowd out of the mosque in silence. Participants stood outside for about ten minutes with their hands joined, no one talking. The religious leaders posed for photos with their arms interlocked. Dearborn Mayor John O'Reilly Jr. attended the event after writing an open letter to Jones that read, "You are coming to protest against an imaginary threat that doesn't exist in our community." Another demonstration against Jones was held at a library on Friday, this one drawing about 1,000 people. Protestors carried signs reading ""I Am American" and "We Are All Brothers in Humanity."

The idea of demonstrating against Sharia law in front of the Islamic Center of America came not from Jones, originally, but from a Michigan fraternal group called the Order of the Dragon. The organization's president, Frank Fiorello, initially welcomed the participation of Terry Jones and his group Stand Up America Now in the protest, but under pressure from the local community backed out. ^[1]

In the courtroom, Jones, who defended himself, stated "You may not agree with what we've done," but "this is, to a certain extent, a First Amendment issue ... and the First Amendment does us no good if it confines us to saying what popular opinion is." Much of the court discussion did center on the First Amendment, and specifically, a Dearborn ordinance requiring demonstrators to obtain permits for protests outside of four specific areas known as "free speech zones." Jones dismissed the concept of free speech zones as "ridiculous." "All we want to do is exercise our First Amendment rights," Jones said. " Freedom of speech does not have speech zones."

The American Civil Liberties Union of Michigan filed a friend of the court brief. "If the First Amendment means anything, it means that the government cannot interfere in a person's free speech simply because it doesn't agree with the message or because someone else may not agree with the message," spokesperson Rana Elmir penned in the statement. "As reprehensible as his beliefs may be," Elmir added, "we believe this is an unconstitutional attempt to limit his unpopular speech." In response to the final verdict, Elmir said, ""The prosecutor's office and the Dearborn court turned the First Amendment on its head." ^[2]

On April 29th, 2011, Terry Jones and Wayne Sapp returned to Dearborn to protest at the City Hall. Hundreds of counter protesters opposed the rally. Jones spoke out both against Sharia Law and the suppression of free speech in Dearborn. "We have four free speech zones in Dearborn," he said. "Do we really need four? How about 3, or 2? Let's just not have any at all. That's where it's going." An hour into the event, Jones walked down the City Hall steps from the podium and up to the barriers set up by police. Protesters to storm Michigan Avenue, throwing shoes and water bottles at Jones and his supporters. Police in riot gear pushed the crowds back to try to control the scene. At least two arrests were made. ^[3]

On June 17th, 2011, Jones led a rally on the steps of Dearborn City Hall to speak against Islam and a had planned to march from there to the Arab Festival. Jones was opposed on the march by angry counter-protesters and was driven away to safety by local police while seven of the counter-protesters were arrested. ^[4]

On November 11th, 2011, A Detroit appeals judge lifted the three-year ban on Terry Jones and Wayne Sapp from protesting outside the Islamic Center of America. The criminal charges of 'breaching the peace' on April 22, 2011 were repealed and their records have since been expunged. ^[5]

On April 7th, 2012 Jones and Stand Up America Now rallied in front of the Islamic Center of America surrounded by a heavy police presence and barricades. "Islam has one goal: That is world domination," Jones said. "It's time to stand up."『Muslims, no matter they go around the world … they push their agenda on the society,』Jones said. "We must take back America." The mosque was placed on lockdown for the afternoon with 30 police cars from Detroit, Dearborn, Wayne County and Michigan surrounding the complex. Traffic in and out was prevented. ^[6]

On October 10th, 2012, Jones led a protest outside Edsel Ford High School in Dearborn against bullying by Muslim students against non-Muslim students at the school. There was a heavy police presence around the school and school officials placed the campus on lock down for the afternoon, cancelling after school activities and preventing students from coming to area where Jones and his supporters stood. “As long as the community is small, they don’t cause any trouble,” Jones said about Muslims. “As the Muslim community grows ... their intolerance of other communities grows.” “Criticism is part of Western society,” Jones said. ^{[7] [8] [9] [10]}

DrTerryDJones (talk) 19:18, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done Violates our WP:NPOV policy. -Nathan Johnson (talk) 22:01, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Answering this request from someone apparently connected with the subject with a simple refusal was just rude. Some of the data has since been added, but doing text searches I think that the following are still not integrated as of the moment:

http://www.dearbornfreepress.com/2011/04/08/community-debates-response-to-terry-jones/

http://www.freep.com/article/20110617/NEWS02/110617045/Quran-burning-Pastor-Jones-thwarted-plan-confront-Arab-festival

http://dearborn.patch.com/articles/terry-jones-dearborn-protest-takes-place-without-incident

http://www.freep.com/article/20121010/NEWS02/121010067/terry-jones-islam-protest-dearborn

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/19785810/pastor-terry-jones-demonstrates-in-dearborn

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121010/METRO01/210100374

I'm making a note of this to keep track as I see what I can do... Wnt (talk) 13:40, 19 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Pretty important, I think, that Terry was sentenced to death (in absentia) ^[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.40.211.45 (talk) 23:47, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relevant due to the acknowledgement by Al Qaeda.^[2] --Amishcomputer (talk) 07:57, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please correct the location of Terry Jones' church, as it is no longer located in Gainesville, Florida. It took us forever to get him out of town, and we really don't want to be associated with him any more. Thanks. 16:33, 12 September 2013 (UTC) Thom Curry (talk) 16:37, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

tarchiokas apsimyzes ir tiek ka apie ta gaidi cia dar rasyti — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.100.53.129 (talk) 09:18, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently this is Lithuanian? But neither Google nor http://www.dict.lt/?k=zod&lang=en is getting me anywhere with half the words. Wnt (talk) 13:29, 19 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Under the heading "Protests", sub-heading "Innocence of Muslims film" - "The U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, was largely burnt and looted;[61][62] killing Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens and three other American citizens.[63]" should be removed as this attack was not caused by the movie, per your own site, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack#Responsibility , "In a phone call with the Egyptian prime minister Kandil the day after the attack, then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said "we know the attack in Libya had nothing to do with the film. It was a planned attack, not a protest."[122]" 122 "The Benghazi Timeline, Clinton Edition - FactCheck.org". June 30, 2016. Archived from the original on July 9, 2018. Retrieved April 1, 2018. 47.13.158.25 (talk) 20:22, 7 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done That is not what the whole of the 2012_Benghazi_attack#Responsibility section says. The next two paragraphs after the one you've quoted say the opposite. Fish+Karate 13:33, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]