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The 3rd edition of the 2 volume set Hardy Herbaceous Perennials (Portland, OR, USA) Timber Press 1990 (Translation of 1985 German edition), claims that plants represented in the trade as T. chamaedrys are usually T. massiliense or hybrids with T. lucidum, thus: T. × lucidrys, and are completely evergreen. We need a WikiProject Plants specialist to follow up on this. I add, that the germanders that I grow are very definitely semi-woody shrubs, not herbaceous perennials. C.s.auaeginal (talk) 02:23, 16 January 2013 (UTC)c.s.auaeginal[reply]