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Talk:The Marriage of Figaro

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DerFigaro, you need to provide a citation for your desire to translate più docile as "more docile". For this opera libretto it is most commonly translated as "kinder" -- for instance as here in the Metropolitan Opera's libretto [1] and subtitles [2], this libretto at Opera-Arias.com [3], this collection of Mozart's opera libretti: [4], this 2006 article in Soundings: An Interdisciplinary Journal『the Countess ultimately grants her husband forgiveness: 'Più docile io sono e dico di sì.' ('I am kinder and will say yes.')』[5], and in the film Amadeus [6]. Wikipedia does not use literal translations for opera arias; we use the most commonly accepted translations by the most authoritative sources. Please provide a citation and get WP:CONSENSUS for your preference instead of edit-warring Softlavender (talk) 03:40, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:59, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Oxford English Dictionary provides the following etymological information and meanings for the word "docile":

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docile, a. [a. F. docile (16^th c. in Hatz.-Darm.), ad. L. docilis easily taught, f. docēre to teach.]

1. Apt to be taught; ready and willing to receive instruction; teachable

1b. Submissive to training; tractable, manageable

2. transf. of things: Yielding readily to treatment; easily managed or dealt with; tractable

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In leading dictionaries (Oxford, Collins, etc.) the Italian word "docile" is translated with the English word "docile" - which is evident since it has the same root and meaning. None of this has anything to do with the word "kinder" with which my "docile" was exchanged, not even remotely.

There are Italian etymological dictionaries on various websites, such as this one

The Italian entry there also refers to the Latin root of the words "docilis" and "docere", and the definitions are also all about teachability:

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dòcile agg. [dal lat. docĭlis, der. di docere «insegnare»]. – 1. letter. Che è atto e disposto ad apprendere: un allievo d., o di d. ingegno. 2. Più com., di persona che si piega facilmente alla volontà di chi ha il compito di guidarla: è un figlio d., o d’indole, di temperamento d.; essere d. agli avvertimenti, ai consigli; rendere d.; anche d’animali (contr. di restio): cavallo d.; bove d. al giogo; in similitudini: essere d. come un agnello. Per estens., letter., di cose: mano d. all’intenzione dell’artista; lingua d. al pensiero; penna, scalpello, pennello d.; rami che si abbassano d. alla mano; di materia, che si lavora con facilità: legno, pietra, marmo, metallo docile. ◆ Avv. docilménte, con docilità, senza opporre resistenza: ubbidire docilmente; seguire docilmente i consigli; un ramo che si piega docilmente.

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The translation of any opera house is NOT a reliable source. The subtitles of any opera house are NOT a reliable source. Ppera-arias.com is NOT a reliable source. The movie Amadeus is NOT a reliable source! Moreover, the Countess' answer I quoted is not an aria title. It was you who deleted my entry and think that the wrong(!) translations of any opera houses or feature films are better than the ones I researched in etymological dictionaries, which translate more precisely the word used by the Countess. DerFigaro (talk) 04:08, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

DerFigaro, you have not cited a single source of how this line is commonly translated for libretti. I have cited several. You do not have any WP:CONSENSUS, and highly experienced Wikipedia opera editors disagree with your personal choice of wording, specifically because it is not how this line is commonly translated into English, and Wikipedia uses common translations (not literal or etymological translations) when translating opera libretti. Softlavender (talk) 04:17, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If it is so important to you that readers get to read falsifying translations and strange interpretations on Wikipedia just because they are "common", then so be it. ;) DerFigaro (talk) 04:28, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]