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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Oppose the naming convention is stated; Wikipedia is secular and does not use titles such as Saint, King, Queen, Sir, Sri, Guru, Mar, Bishop, Archbishop, Metropolitan, His Royal Highness which various adherents and citizens of the particular religion or country may well commonly use; for saints of any colour, creed or denomination see Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(clergy)#Saints. No insult is intended or implied in this naming, and the commonly-used honorifics and honours may be given in the article body, as the disputed articles now do. (Crusoe8181 (talk) 11:25, 26 September 2011 (UTC)).[reply]
Again though, doing the same thing here would be sticking with an arbitrary Wikipedia convention over common use in the sources. Few if any sources refer to these men as "Thoma I", "Thoma VII", etc.--Cúchullaint/c12:17, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Many sources refer to "Elizabeth II".[1] The difference here is that few if any sources refer to these people as "Thoma I", "Thoma II" etc. Wikipedia shouldn't be making up its own names.Cúchullaint/c12:28, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Marthoma (Mar Thoma in English), is the name given to the head of the Malankara Church at the time of his consecration. Head of this Church is addressed only by the name, ‘’Marthoma’’ and not by any other name. Even their parents call them, ‘’Mar Thoma’’. Their baptismal names are unknown and giving them the name Thoma by Wikipedia is not correct and acceptable.
I did not know that Wikipedia is authorized to change the names of people according to some ‘’Naming Conventions’’ that they make. Respected people must always be respected. The name Elizabeth is very common. Her Majesty should be respected and her name should be given correctly. The name Thoma is very common in Kerala. ‘’Mar Thoma’’ should be respected and the name should not be changed.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 17:19, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
I think this needs to be reopened, as move-warring has clouded the issue. It seems from the above discussion that no-one has yet countered the claim that the current names (without "Mar") are simply not used. If that is the case, then we absolutely can't use those names - if there's a guideline that tells us to, then it means there's something wrong with the guideline, not with the proposed titles. As was said somewhere above, Wikipedia does not make stuff up. Can someone who supports the shorter names provide some sources to support them? If not, then we need the articles to be moved and the guideline updated.Kotniski (talk) 07:25, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support move. Follow the overwhelmingly more common usage to ensure that the article has a title that will be recognizable to readers. Although we don't generally include honorifics in the title, there are nevertheless cases where honorifics are useful as part of the common name (eg. Mother Teresa, Saint Peter etc.) Jafeluv (talk) 21:07, 31 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Seems we're all agreed, so I've started to move the remaining pages. Only numbers I and II have not been done yet, as they're move-protected; hopefully will be done soon.--Kotniski (talk) 10:15, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Mar Thoma 1 is not from pakalomattom family. His actual name is Thomas de Campo means Parambil Thoma Lathamar and he was a couscin of Alexander da Campo of kalli family Tony kokkat (talk) 07:35, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]