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I just wanted to show you how we grouped casualties from specific incidents together on the Canadian Page. You'll probably find that for incidents that involved multiple casualties, info such as unit, location, and the incident description are the same for some (as in with the unit info) or all of the info will be the same. the command rowspan= "2" would take the data in a column and stretch its cell over 2 rows. usually what I'll do when I'm editing the Canadian page, is look for a previous incident with the same number of casualties, cut and paste it to the bottom of the table, then input the new info in-place of the old info. I put this in for the 1st helecopter crash in pakistan.
Also, I noticed that most (all?) of the citations lead to the same page. It may be worth taking the time to find either media reports about specific incidents, or seeing if the DOD has press releases on its site that you can link to. This will also help you find details about each incident that can be added to the 'circumstances' column and verify details such as the date and exact location.
Finally, maintaining an article like this can be a lot of work. you may wish to recrute some dedicated editors to help you keep on top of new casualties. Mike McGregor (Can) (talk) 02:39, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the advice. I already sent messages to two editors who had been regulary adding coalition fatalities to the Coalition casualties in Afghanistan article. Since that list has been removed I told them they can edit this one now. Because I had to build the list first I was using one source as a basis for all of the names, but I will see to maybe replace those references with DoD notifications of the deaths of the soldiers. Thanks again.BobaFett85 (talk) 23:12, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just looked at the AfD. Not sure where i'll come down on that. But if this is going to survive, it should be renamed to either "United States casualties xxx" or, if there's some concern that non-US citizens serving in the US military would be excluded on that basis "United States military casualties in the Afghan war." A mouthful, but "American" sometimes means different things to different people.Bali ultimate (talk) 22:33, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think you need to link to a source which mentions the discrepancies between the figures the DoD uses and the figures given in icasualties.org, otherwise it is OR. At the very least, you need to provide links to the two figures for reference. Creating a whole article just for you to reconcile two different sets of figures seems a bit excessive, and as another editor suggests, reeks of original research. Lawrence, M.J. (talk) 10:34, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I totaly agree with you. If everybody agreed I will delete the list tonight and replace it with a table with numbers of deaths by province and country. I will replace it tonight so I hope the AdF nomination will be withdrawn.BobaFett85 (talk) 11:33, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Re the new proposal posted on my talk page i think that goes along way to combatting the issues raised. However it still is POV pushing in regards to the figures. Something along the lines of "the DOD has stated x killed in XYZ while the internet source states x have been killed in XYZ". That would help do away with some, if not all, of the the OR and POV isssues.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 14:24, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Replace
Rank | Name | Unit | Date | Circumstance | Place | References | |
1. | Master Sergeant | Evander E.Andrews | 366th Civil Engineer Squadron | October 10 2001 | Killed in a forklift accident. | Qatar |
Rank | Name | Unit | Date | Circumstance | Place | |
1. | M Sgt | Evander E.Andrews | 366th CES | Oct 01,2001 | Killed in a forklift accident. | Qatar |
This would cut the size down a lot. The reference column can be removed, as the ref is repeated. There can be common references at the end of the table. Wallie (talk) 17:09, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
With
In addition to these deaths another 68 soldiers were reported to have died as part of Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF); 42 of these have been confirmed to have died in Africa, Southeast Asia or Cuba in support of Operation Enduring Freedom - Horn of Africa, Operation Enduring Freedom - Philippines, Operation Enduring Freedom - Trans Sahara and the detainment of prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Thus the remaining 26 fatalities are generaly regarded[citation needed] to have died in support of combat operations in Afghanistan making a total of 627 United States servicemen deaths in the war in Afghanistan. Of the remaining 26, two died due to hostile action while a Marine and a civilian DoD employee killed by terrorist gunmen in Kuwait.[2][3]
Explain the relevence of these additional deaths, considering the missions talked about are not linked to the fighting in Afganistan as far as i can tell (bar a simliar mission name). Who generaly regards the remaining 26 fatalities to have died in support of the fighting in Afganistan? Does the DoD state this 627 figure anywhere in contary to their 601 figure? Who directly claims 627 US soldiers have died in Afganistan?
It does still seem to be some OR going on here--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 03:32, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Reply for the additional 26 US deaths. This article was created as to list all of the US soldiers killed in support of combat operations in Afghanistan and not just those killed within Afghanistan itself. There have been dozens of US deaths in Kuwait and those have been linked with the Iraq war. It has been clearly confirmed that 42 soldiers died in OEF - Horn of Africa, OEF - Trans-Sahara, OEF - Philipines and at the detention center in Cuba. Except for OEF - Afghanistan there is no other sub-operation of OEF, thus logic dictates the 26 killed in Arabian countries were killed in support of combat operations in Afghanistan. There is no other sub-operation of OEF they could have been supporting. Example, two of the three sailors who died in the Arabian sea were kiilled in late 2001 onboard the USS Kity Hawk, at the time the USS Kity Hawk was lanching air and missile attacks on Afghanistan.BobaFett85 (talk) 04:08, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The article is hugely improved (very well done!), and while it needs further work I think there's no need for an AfD relisting at this point, though obviously I'm only speaking for myself. The "Numbers of fatalities" section is quite good, giving as it does both sets of figures without any editor commentary. I'm not sure if we need the subheadings, but that's really a stylistic issue - I may give the article a slight copyedit, if no-one minds ;)
The last remaining issue for me is the casualties table. Is it possible to change the table to match the DoD figures and give their 626 total, but then add a few additional rows underneath giving the 'missing' casualties from icasualties.org and the adjusted total of 634? I think this would avoid any impression of giving preference to one figure over the other, and clearly show where the discrepancies lie. EyeSerenetalk 10:34, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I noticed the sub-headings have gone back in - the reason I removed them was that they divide the article and set the two figures against each other, artificiality creating a 'conflict' where none need exist. I'm also uncomfortable with having a website listed so prominently in a heading. To me it seems like borderline spam, but maybe that's just me ;) EyeSerenetalk 10:10, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The tables in this article use the numbers of fatalities on the iCasualties website (eg, 303 total in 2009, of which 260 were killed in action and a total of 867 fatalities since 2001). However, these appear to be based on a different accounting to that used to develop US Department of Defense's figures (859 deaths in and around Afghanistan, including 663 KIA). As both iCasualties and the DoD's figures include deaths in countries which neighbor Afghansitan, 1) what makes iCasualties a reliable source and 2) why doesn't this article use the official DoD figures? Nick-D (talk) 22:41, 26 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
According to icasualities 15 US soldiers killed in Afghanistan in 2010.And all killed in action.And all casualities are in Afghanistan, i mean they are not around afghanistan or other locations.They are only and only in Afghanistan. http://www.icasualties.org/OEF/index.aspx http://www.icasualties.org/OEF/ByMonth.aspx I correct the figure several times but some other people again write wrong figure that 6 soldiers killed in 2010. http://www.icasualties.org/OEF/index.aspx All 15 killed in action.
Undo Nick-D activity to add correct figure of casualities.Or check the icasualities.org and correct as manually.If you want to correct automatically then undo the Nick-D activity on below page.
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"More than two-thirds of those deaths have occurred since the American military presence in Afghanistan was doubled under President Barack Obama in 2009." This aspect of the text has no reference and suggests a correlation between the United States administration body and the number of deaths in Afghanistan. However statistically speaking the increase of military presence is the most probable cause for a larger number of causalities during these times. (If you add more, more could be lost). I do not want to remove this text as such an action could also be subjective but I do recommend it be removed or replaced with accurate (referenced) and objective facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.195.176.186 (talk) 10:42, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The definition of a casualty is not just those KIA but also all those WIA or MIA as well as those kept as POWs
While the KIA rate in Afghanistan is very low, leaving out the hundreds of thousands of wounded servicemembers paints an incomplete picture of the war's effects.
"More than 320,000 soldiers from Afghanistan and Iraq have traumatic brain injuries that cause disorientation and confusion, as of 2018. Of those, more than 8,000 suffered severe or invasive brain injuries, and more than 1,600 soldiers lost all or part of a limb. More than 138,000 have post-traumatic stress disorder. They experience flashbacks, hypervigilance, and difficulty sleeping.
On average, 20 veterans commit suicide each day according to a 2016 VA study. The Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America found that 47% of its members know of someone who has attempted suicide after returning from active duty. The group considers veteran suicide to be its top issue."
If someone can view VA records and find the firsthand report with more accurate numbers it should be added to the article.
Legomationer (talk) 14:37, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
References