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Talk:Viceroyalty of Peru

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Moving a section

[edit]

How about moving the section "List of Viceroys" to a separate article, "List of Viceroys of Peru"? That would be parallel to the way Viceroys of New Spain is handled, and more convenient if all the reader is looking for is "who came when". And it will probably be necessary when the main article is expanded anyway, to keep it to a reasonable size. Rbraunwa 13:03, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

but i think the "Inca" flag shown here is the flag carried by gays. please correct me if im wrong but if i am the resemblence is amazing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.155.11.202 (talk) 22:21, 14 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]

yes it does because it was "asigned" during the 70's, the real ones use squares --Andersmusician $ 02:48, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There's no "Inca flag", the Incas had no notion of flag thus never had one. The wiphala (or rainbow flag) was a 20th-century invention by members of the indigenista movement. Check the relevant discussion at Talk:Inca Empire --Victor12 02:56, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've found a different pic with territories in current venezuela taken, please someone say oppinions --Andersmusician $ 02:48, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am deleting the reference to the Battle of Ayacucho as being alternatively called "The Battle of Quinua." Many battles names are misnomers due to faulty knowledge of geography at the time they are named (see American Civil War) but this is nothing more than an historical curiosity. No source nor person I am aware of would refer to the Battle of Ayacucho as the Battle of Quinua...even if the combatants were closer to Quinua than to Ayacucho. Rafajs77 (talk) 17:49, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

User:Escarlati make this edition [1] and impose the flag of Cross of Burgundy for Peru. Why?. Not exist any flag of cross of Burgundy of viceroyalty of Peru. Never. Never. The bibliography say:

• Americas is a part of Crown of Castile and Spain and use this symbols. Before the national flag of Spain (Roja y Gualda), the symbol of Spain is the royal coat of arms. [2] "el escudo de las armas reales, símbolo común de la nacionalidad española" Traslation: "the coat of royal arms the common symbol of Spanish nationality".

• Boletín de la Academia Puertorriqueña de la Historia Las armas de Castilla y León eran las únicas concedidas en los escudos americanos a los nuevos territorios. "The arms of Castile and Leon were the only Americans coats granted to new territories" traslation.

• [3] "Mandamos a los virreyes que en los guiones no pongan más que nuestras armas reales, ni usen de las suyas propias, ni de ninguna otras, en actos y concursos como virreyes, presidentes, gobernadores o capitanes generales.". "sent to the viceroys in the banners do not put more than our royal arms, not use of their own, or any other, in events and contest as viceroys, presidents, governors or captains general".Traslation.
• Jahrbuch für Geschichte Lateinamerikas.p205 "En el Nuevo Mundo el guión fue el símbolo real usado normalmente por los virreyes, como insignia de su poder militar y emblema de jurisdicción" "In the New World the banner was a royal symbol normally used by the viceroys, as their military insignia and emblem of jurisdiction" Traslation.

--Santos30 (talk) 11:27, 26 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• The flag with royal coat of arms of Castile is that Simón Bolívar send to Venezuela [4]. This is The War flag with wich the conquistador Francisco Pizarro entered in the city of Cuzco. (see flag of Pizarro with coat armas of Castile)

• see royal flag of Ayacucho (1824) with coat armas of Castile Bandera Real, que se halló en la batalla de Ayacucho (9-XII-1824). Royal Flag, which was found in the Battle of Ayacucho (9-XII-1824).

--Santos30 (talk) 06:16, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• [5] Our knowledge of the red and yellow flag, we also know that presided over all battles in which Spain lost its colonial empire, from Chacabuco, Maipú and Ayacucho, to Santiago de Cuba and Cavite.

--Santos30 (talk) 09:57, 29 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Plese stop filling this talk page with misinterpretations of sources. You are very aware of the discussion in Talk:New_Spain#flag_was_the_.22estandarte_virreinal.22. --Enric Naval (talk) 13:54, 29 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You can not ignore the reference of the royal flag in Battle of Ayacucho.--Santos30 (talk) 14:28, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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I suspect this is a mistake, although I have not go the sources on hand to confirm it.

Under the 'Succeeded by' section 'Spanish Guinea' is listed, which was a Spanish colony in West Africa, not in South America. Also, under 'Today part of' the modern independent African nation of 'Equatorial Guinea' is listed which was the independent successor of 'Spanish Guinea'.

This presumed error is repeated on the wikipedia page for 'Spanish Guinea' which lists 'Viceroyalty of Peru' as it's successor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.64.109.69 (talk) 19:51, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The viceroyalty map has errors 1 island of pacua etc I was not part of the Spanish empire, the center and south of present-day Chile and Argentina I was never part of the Spanish empire, the liberating expedition was created by Chile not by Argentina to clarify that Argentina did not exist they were the united provinces of the rio de la plata, etc. a lot of historical error. Greends (talk) 16:04, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You are not understanding the map is based on de jure claims not on actual control. Easter Island was indeed claimed by Spain as part of the viceroyalty so it is de jure part of it. Dentren | ^Talk 01:55, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It caught my attention that a simplified version of the arms of Castile and León are being used as coat of arms for the Viceroyalty, and so I wanted to mention a few details:

• The arms of Lima are taken as arms of the viceroyalty of Peru, among those of other Habsburg territories, in the Hall of Kingdoms (17th century) in Madrid.
• Public buildings used the arms of Castile and León (as depicted here but not always including Granada). Some examples worthy of mention are:
  • The portal of the Government Palace in Lima, as seen in the painting La procesión de Viernes Santo in the main square of Lima, c. 1665 (I'm sorry about there not being better pictures online; the arms can be seen more clearly in person)
  • The portal of Lima Cathedral displayed the arms in its upper section, as seen in the engraving Vista de la catedral de Lima después de la reedificación finalizada en 1801 (17th-century author Echave y Assú also mentions the coat of arms here, but doesn't describe it).
  • The project for the Callao Gate (1800), one of the city gates of Lima, featured the arms of Castile and León (with Bourbon inescutcheon and including Granada).
  • The arms of Castile and León, without Granada, can be found in relief form in the façade of Cuzco Cathedral (they also appear above the Epistle and Gospel doors at each side of the main portal but judging from this picture, these could be from a later reconstruction).
  • The Bourbon arms appear again in the façade of Trujillo Cathedral, as depicted in the Códice Martínez Compañón (c. 1785).
  • The portal of the Royal Mint of Potosí keeps the arms of Castile and León with the Bourbon inescutcheon to this day.
  • Having been constructed very late during the Bourbon era, Bogota Cathedral must have displayed their arms above its main door. They were defaced at some point, but a blank escutcheon, as well as an open crown, the chain of the Golden Fleece and a sculpted pomegranate can still be seen.

Photos of the Limean examples don't exist: In the case of the Government Palace, a panel with the republican arms of Peru was placed before the royal arms early in the 19th century, hiding these from view; regarding the Cathedral, the coat of arms was simply defaced and replaced with the Chalice of Saint John, arms of the Archdiocese (see photos by Courret, 1868). As for the Callao gate, the upper section is missing in photographs; either it was torn down or was never completed in the first place.

• The Habsburg arms appeared in maps throughout the 17th century (1674, 1688) and as late as 1738 (map of Quito).
• A coat of arms similar to that of Philip V appears in this document related to the Royal Mint of Lima, reportedly dated 1816.
• The arms of the Crown of Castile appear in the portraits of nobles Don Marcos Chihuantupa (c. 1740, depicted as Royal Flagbearer) and Doña Manuela Túpac Amaru (1777).

I hope this can be of use. --179.6.196.234 (talk) 00:16, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In addition to these:

• This map, dated 1674, displays the 1580 royal arms, albeit with a crown of eight (rather than four) arches.
• The College of St Francis Borgia for the nobility of Cuzco displays, above its portal, the arms of Castile and León, without Granada and with an open crown above.
• The Cathedral in Cajamarca displays two versions of royal arms: atop the main portal, the arms of Castile and León can be seen, with the arms of the city replacing Castile in quarter II; the side portal shows the coat of arms as depicted here.
• The Church of St Peter, also in Cuzco, includes as part of its portal a relief of the arms of Castile and León, without Granada. This is the case, too, of the Church of St Anthony Abbot in the same city.
• Lastly, this official decree by the Prince (consort) of Esquilache, Viceroy of Peru, dated 1617, uses the royal arms in their 1580 version.

In contrast, the arms as shown in the infobox seem to have been mostly unused.--179.6.31.241 (talk) 20:29, 9 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that none of the viceroyalties had no flags. This is an overuse of Wikipedia graphics that leads to confusion, especially the abuse of the Burgundy Cross flag that has no bibliographical support. In any case, if you want to add a flag should be listed the first known Spanish flag, which is red and yellow, since it is a Spanish viceroyalty. --Vicentemovil (talk) 17:04, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Flag red-yellow, references: Callao-Lima, Peru. United States. Bureau of Naval Personnel. 1920. p. 26.; Lawrence, Sondhaus (2012). Naval Warfare, 1815-1914. p. 13.; Von Tschudi, Johann (1847). Travels in Peru. p. 33.
• Coat of Arms of Lima, references: The coat of arms of Lima as a symbol of the viceroyalty, that is to say, the kingdom of Peru, are displayed in the frieze of the Salón de Reinos of the Buen Retiro palace. López Guzmán, Rafael (2004). Perú indígena y virreinal (in Spanish). p. 107. alienados en el friso del Salón de Reinos del palacio del Buen Retiro, del escudo de Lima como símbolo del virreinato , vale decir el reino del Perú. Vicentemovil (talk) 11:22, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  You just plainly ignored all the examples referred to above, and the fact that the arms of the King were used in the Viceroyalty's official documents. And as tempting as it might be to use the arms in the Hall of Realms, it's a standalone case.

  You're just jumping on here now because your personal campaigns in the Spanish wiki have insofar been fruitless, and instead have been rebuked, several times now. 179.6.30.23 (talk) 15:27, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Your inference in all the examples about those old manuscripts is very respectable, but according to Wikipedia:No original research it is original research. The cited bibliography says that: Lima's coat of arms as a symbol of the viceroyalty, that is, the kingdom of Peru. Vicentemovil (talk) 09:32, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I already know you'd use that as a pitiful excuse to continue this, but it is you who are picking a single source so it goes along your own interpretation (which basically is 'El escudo de armas del virreinato pudo ser el de Lima, como así se llamaba el virreinato'). You're already been called out for doing that on es.wiki:

  'No sabía que "fuentes primaria" sea una forma de llamar a "fuente que dice lo que no quiero oir".' (0)

  I leave with you these so you can do some reading today. Biblioteca de Legislación Ultramarina, Vol. 5, p. 105 [6] [7] Boletín de la Academia Puertorriqueña de Historia [8]

  Regarding the Cross of Burgundy p. 530, footnotes

  And given that apparently one needs a book to tell them what's already right in front of them, for the case of the use of the royal arms in a public building, I suggest La Catedral de Lima: Estudios y documentos (1996), pp. 221 & 247.

  Here you're just trying to reopen a matter that's been settled long ago hiding behind WP:NOR and using it as a pretext. You might insist on it all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it was the King's arms those that were officially used for the Viceroyalty.

  PS. And the administrative provisions, 'those old manuscripts' as you call them, aren't even manuscripts, they were printed. If you can't even make that distinction. 179.6.30.23 (talk) 19:39, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  The royal arms are used by the Spanish colonial authorities, but the arms of the kingdoms should correspond on the Template:Infobox country, not the arms carried by the Spanish colonial authorities. Vicentemovil (talk) 09:31, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Both the coat of arms of Lima and Mexico City were taken as a symbol of the kingdoms of which they were the capital, as can be seen in the Hall of Kingdoms in Madrid, where both appear representing the kingdoms of Peru and Mexico among the total of the twenty-four of which Philip IV was monarch. Sierra López, Alejandro. "El rincón de la heráldica. Escudos de ciudades y regiones americanas" [The heraldry corner Coats of arms of American cities and regions]. Gobierno de España. Ministerio de Cultura y Deporte (in Spanish). Tanto el escudo de Lima como el de la ciudad de México fueron tomados como sinécdoque de los reinos de los que eran capital, tal y como puede observarse en el Salón de Reinos de Madrid donde ambos aparecen representando a los reinos de Perú y México entre el total de los veinticuatro de los que era monarca Felipe IV Vicentemovil (talk) 16:10, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  see reference above Vicentemovil (talk) 13:19, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]