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Talk:Voiced palatal plosive

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Isn't the h sound in English huge an example of this phoneme?[edit]

Isn't the h sound in English huge an example of this phoneme?

For some people, that h isn't far from a voiceless palatal fricative. The voiced palatal plosive sounds more like an English j.

The closest you can get in English to this sound is in words like geek, where the velar g is followed by a vowel articulated around the palate, which has the effect of partially palatalizing the g. But if you turn the fricative hinhuge into a plosive you'll get the right sound. --AdiJapan 08:25, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I removed Italian from the examples due to insecurity. Can somebody more expert than me check whether this does appears in Italian or not?

I removed the Turkish example, as it is in fact:

• Turkish: güneş [gyˈneʃ], "sun"

and not:

• Turkish: güneş [ɟyˈneʃ], "sun"

as was in the article.

The Romance /g/ is fronted, and so apparently is the Turkish one. But that's [g˖], not [ɟ], for which you have to bend your tongue into a ⋂ shape so that the blade touches the alveolar ridge of the lower jaw.

For sound files of real palatal plosives and nasals, go here.

See Talk:Voiceless palatal plosive for why I removed Latvian from the list of examples and slapped "dubious" tags on a few others.

Incidentally, aren't the vowels wrong in the Turkish example you removed? Shouldn't they be [ʏ] and [ɛ]? Just asking. David Marjanović 20:34, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Except for Greek, the other languages are known to have voiced palatal stops. So the only one which may be dubious is Greek unless someone can find a source. The Writing Systems of the World lists Latvian having the voiceless palatal stop. Azalea pomp 17:31, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what was removed but as someone who speaks Turkish at a beginner's level, having lived in Turkey for a year, it is my belief that the pronunciation of『güneş』should be [gyˈnɛʃ], which is what all three of my Turkish grammar books state. ğ [ʏ], is not a vowel in Turkish, it is a consonant and never occurs at the beginning of a Turkish word, only between vowels in the middle of a word. If it is really [ʏ] is questionable in my opinion. Although my books give that as the IPA symbol for it, it is so light that it sounds more like an English "w". Mike Hayes (talk) 18:44, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody said that Turkish ⟨ğ⟩ is realized as [ʏ] (actually, nobody said a word about that letter). The example above contains the letter ⟨g⟩, not ⟨ğ⟩. [y] and [ʏ] are transcriptions of the vowel ⟨ü⟩ ([ʏ] appears only in final open syllable of a phrase, so not in the word güneş), which appears after ⟨g⟩ in that word. Peter238 (talk) 07:28, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That comment:『Corresponds to /ɡ/ in other varieties』in the Catalan example is completely false, /g/ (phoneme) being unable to occur in Catalan not being in initial context or after nasal. That is why I provided that example: /səɾɣəntánə/. Another different question is the ortographic form "g", which is not relevant in phonetics, as you must know. So please Azalea pomp, undo that change is you want to keep the quality of the article.

It was I, not Azalea pomp, who made the change in question. The representation of phonemes, between / slashes /, allows for a bit of abstraction. In the case of the phoneme represented by the letter <g> in Catalan, the literature on Catalan overwhelmingly uses /g/, even though the approximant/fricative allophone is more common. Check out Catalan phonology. You may be confused about the differences between phoneme and allophone, so check those articles out as well. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 16:55, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is misleading to say it is similar to [dʒ] when, really, for human ears, it is much more similar to [g]. Can anyone clarify this? » byeee 00:16, 7 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's in the context of English, though it's unsourced either way. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 01:10, 7 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not so sure the sample sounds right, as it sounds just like /dj/. Even though the corresponding nasal (ɲ)sounds almost exactly like /nj/, it says this sound (ɟ) is close to /dʒ/ as in English jump, which doesn't sound at all like /dj/.

A similar possible problem is found with the voiceless variant, c. Like I said, the sample is possibly incorrect.

If you look up Arjun and ArjunaonForvo, all spoken by Indians, it definitely sounds like /dʒ/, not /dj/. So I agree that the sound sample is inaccurate. Mike Hayes (talk) 19:12, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not an expert at phonetics, but I am quite intrested in it and like to read (and discuss improvements to) articles about phonetic sonds.~Wimpy Fanboy ^chit-chat? _{sign mine!} 16:56, 2 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wimpy Fanboy (talk • contribs) [reply]

The sound sample does not sound right. It appears to be recorded by someone who cannot distinguish between plosive and implosive. To me, it sounds like an implosive rather than a plosive.

Aursani (talk) 08:13, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone have references for the occurrence of [ɟ] as an allophone of [dj] in German, as asserted in this article? I've never heard a German speaker (including dialect speakers) use [ɟ]. My dtv Atlas Deutsche Sprache doesn't know this sound, nor do the articles German phonology and Aussprache der deutschen Sprache. I wonder where this comes from.--Colomen (talk) 21:31, 9 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

an example from Azerbaijani should be added Mizoru (talk) 14:13, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]