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Archive 1 |
This proposal distinguishes between spirits distilled from various grains, fruits or other plants, and those flavored with various fruits and herbs. It also allows the lists to be collapsed:
Unless there are violent objections, I will make the change in a day or so (please leave comments if (a) you object; or (b) have amendments / nits to be addressed before implementation. Bongomatic (talk) 17:12, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I like the idea of the template, but I have a few suggestions:
--Stlemur 18:41, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Proposed revision:
Alcohol |
Ethanol | History of alcohol | Brewery | Health | Alcohol advertising | Drugs | Drinking culture | Drunkenness | Breathalyzer | Hangover | Alcoholism |
Fermented beverages |
---|
Fruit: | Wine & Cider | Malt: | Beer & Alcopop | Rice: | Rice wine | Sugar cane: | Basi | Honey: | Mead | Milk: | Kumis |
Distilled fermented beverages |
Malt: | Whisky & Gin | Rice: shochu | Huangjiu | Baijiu | Fruits: brandy | Sugar cane & Molasses: rum | cachaça | aguardiente | guaro | Potato: vodka | aquavit | brennivín | Milk: Araka |
Cocktails |
This is only halfway done. The problem is, where we have "Rice: shochu | Huangjiu | Baijiu" and then "Potato: vodka | aquavit | brennivín" it's not quite accurate -- a lot of each of those is made with something other than rice or potato. There should be a general classification for such beverages, but there isn't, as far as I know... --Stlemur 14:03, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't know much about tables, but how does this general idea look, if we can straighten out the top?
Alcohol | |||||||
Ethanol | History of alcohol | Brewery | Health | Alcohol advertising | Drugs | Drinking culture | Drunkenness | Breathalyzer | Hangover | Alcoholism | |||||||
Fruit: | Malt: | Rice: | Sugar cane: | Honey: | Milk: | ||
Fermented beverages | Wine & Cider | Beer & Alcopop | Rice wine | Basi | Mead | Kumis | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Distilled fermented beverages | Whisky & Gin | shochu , Huangjiu and Baijiu | brandy | rum, cachaça, aguardiente & guaro | vodka, aquavit & brennivín | Araka | |
Cocktails |
--Stlemur 17:58, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Why the strange alphabetization? Badagnani 05:08, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
There are getting to be far too many drinks in this template. We can't put in everything in Category:Alcoholic beverages. There needs to be some kind of limit; if we can't come up with one then the template's too general. --02:38, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
We could split the mixed drinks out into their own template, which would drop one section off. I do like adding this to the mixed drink pages, because it really ties in with the topic well. That might lead to two templates being placed on mixed drink articles, and that would not be a great thing.
I could pretty easily create ONE template that uses a simple attribute to display several versions of identically formatted templates forming a set. Something like this:
Alcoholic beverages |
Main Topics |
---|
Alcohol | Fermented beverages | Distilled beverages | Mixed drinks | Other beverages |
Alcohol |
Ethanol | History of alcohol | Brewery | Health | Alcohol advertising | Drugs | Drinking culture | Drunkenness | Breathalyzer | Hangover | Homebrewing | Winemaking |
Alcoholic beverages |
Main Topics |
---|
Alcohol | Fermented beverages | Distilled beverages | Mixed drinks | Other beverages |
Fermented beverages |
Wine | Beer | Ale | Rye beer | Corn beer | Wheat beer | Sake | Sonti | Makgeolli | Tuak | Cider | Apfelwein | Perry | Basi | Pulque | Plum wine | Pomace wine | Mead | Kumis | Huangjiu |
Alcoholic beverages |
Main Topics |
---|
Alcohol | Fermented beverages | Distilled beverages | Mixed drinks | Other beverages |
Distilled beverages |
Agave: Tequila | Mezcal;
Almond: Amaretto;
Anise-flavored: Absinthe | Arak | Ouzo | Rakı | Pastis | Sambuca; |
Alcoholic beverages |
Main Topics |
---|
Alcohol | Fermented beverages | Distilled beverages | Mixed drinks | Other beverages |
Mixed drinks |
Alcoholic: Beer cocktails | Cocktails (true) | Flaming beverages | Shooters | Wine cocktails | Non-Alcoholic: Virgin Cocktails | Supplies: Drinkware | Garnishes |
Alcoholic beverages |
Main Topics |
---|
Alcohol | Fermented beverages | Distilled beverages | Mixed drinks | Other beverages |
Other beverages |
Alcopop |
Alcohol |
Ethanol | History of alcohol | Brewery | Health | Alcohol advertising | Drugs | Drinking culture | Drunkenness | Breathalyzer | Hangover | Homebrewing | Winemaking |
Fermented beverages |
---|
Wine | Beer | Ale | Rye beer | Corn beer | Wheat beer | Sake | Sonti | Makgeolli | Tuak | Cider | Apfelwein | Perry | Basi | Pulque | Plum wine | Pomace wine | Mead | Kumis | Huangjiu |
Distilled beverages |
Agave: Tequila | Mezcal;
Almond: Amaretto;
Anise-flavored: Absinthe | Arak | Ouzo | Rakı | Pastis | Sambuca; |
Mixed drinks |
Alcoholic: Beer cocktails | Cocktails (true) | Flaming beverages | Shooters | Wine cocktails | Non-Alcoholic: Virgin Cocktails | Supplies: Drinkware | Garnishes |
Other beverages |
Alcopop |
Another thing that might be possible would be to use collapsible div's that would essentially "hide" the sections that were not selected. In other words, on a mixed drinks page, you would see that list. If you then clicked the fermented link, instead of jumping to a separate page, the mixed drinks section would become hidden and the fermented ones would appear without reloading the page. Kind of like how some other templates do now where extra verbiage is hidden until the [Show] link is clicked.
The first part (using a little parser magic) would be easy. I've never tried something here at Wikipedia quite as dynamic as the show/hide section, but I'd be willing to give it a try if that's the direction people would like to move forward.
--Willscrlt (Talk·Cntrb) 08:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
The template is dizzyingly huge. I think some of the above proposals would make it more elegant. Badagnani 23:05, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
See Template:IT giants. Even if we kept the "dizzyingly huge" list of beverages we currently have, we could greatly limit its impact on any given article by allowing the reader to hide it, using Template:Navigation or one if its derivatives, as the template above does. Also note that it would greatly simplify the syntax of the list. MrZaiustalk 20:11, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Kudos on the template, however I see a certain issue with the distilled beverage categories. Currently the template sorts by fruit/plant/seed/legume/grain of origin, however this can be an issue since as far as vodka is concerned, many vodkas are not distilled from potatoes. Take for instance Finlandia and Cîroc which are distilled from barley and grapes respectively. Not sure if this applies to other distilled beverages since I am not as familiar with many of the other spirits as I am with vodka. D1lux 00:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Someone moved this from "distilled" to "fermented", but the article says it can be made both ways. Anyone know which is more common/easier to find? --DrGaellon (talk | contribs) 19:30, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
[2] - It appears that a number of direct links were replaced with category links today. I understand the motivation behind it, and won't revert them, but I'd like to point out that I feel the infobox was stronger, stylistically, when it contained direct links to actual articles, rather than expecting the reader to sift through category pages. Thoughts? MrZaiustalk 23:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
There should be a liqueur category aswell. It is somewhat misleading to put liqueurs in the same group as pure, distilled liquors. As the setup is now, it seems Advocaat is distilled from eggs, Amaretto distilled from almonds, etc., but most liqueurs are simply missing. I can agree the template is rather too big, but then it should be changed to a two-level template. Some of the suggestions mentioned above under "Getting too big" seem reasonable. The new liquor category could still be part of a two-level template. I added a category for Alcohol powder and Vodka gel, btw. I thought they were hard to fit in with existing categories. --Sasper 22:39, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree and was about to make that exact comment.
Perhaps the answer would be to embed a secondary template into the main template such as is in the turkish cusine/beverages templates: Template:Turkish cuisine/beverage for working example, see Ayran.
J.P.Lon 13:27, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I feel the template is still full of inconsistencies. What is the use of a general term fruit if you are going to add some specific, important fruit varieties (apples, plums) as their own category while ignoring others, such as grapes, that are even more important on the world market? I noticed this when I added "armagnac" to the list of fruits, but could not find a specific entry for grapes -- which would be important as it would include cognac, armagnac, sherry and Jerez brandy, and maybe a few more (grappa & marc are correctly listed under pomace). Perhaps the list would be better if it included fruits (general) and then, say, the 3-4 most important fruits based on market importance: grapes, plums, and apples. The 3 individuals need not be placed in purely alphabetical order with other major categories, but could be listed behind the general word fruits, as subcategories. Alternatively, they could be listed completely separately (and then alphabetically in the major list), but then no entry specific only to grapes, apples, or plums should continue to appear under the generic/general category fruits. For the moment I will follow the latter strategy while adding the category grapes. Jtnet 12:12, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I removed this from the Mixed Drinks category since "premixed" drinks would more likely be assumed to be pre-made mixes of traditional cocktails and the like, not brewed drinks with added flavoring (which frankly would fall under liqueur or American schnapps). IMO, "alcopop" is either a regional word or scare-mongering by anti-alcohol groups trying make a link between underage drinking and sweetened alcoholic beverages.130.13.20.67 (talk) 22:15, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
As per Wikipedia:Navigation templates, the template has been reduced to make navigation easier, and the template more useful. SilkTork *YES! 13:00, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
WP:NAV guidelines are arguably not followed with this template in its current form. One proposed (and as of now, reverted) suggestion is this:
| ||
---|---|---|
Production | ||
Fermented beverages | Beer (types) · Wine (types) · Cider (types) · Mead (types) Rice wine (types) · Other fermented beverages | |
Distilled beverages | Fortified wine (types) · Gin (types) · Liqueur (types) · Rum (types) · Tequila (types) · Vodka (types) · Whisky (types) | |
Mixed drinks | List of beer cocktails · List of cocktails · List of flaming beverages · List of wine cocktails · Mulled wine · Shooters |
To my thinking, this unacceptably removes a number of useful features:
Nonetheless, the current template does warrant some rethinking. Ideas? Bongomatic 13:41, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Bongomatic's organisation of the template is not based on the way that alcoholic beverages are organised. It's a personal view - it's interesting, and I understand the thinking, but it is personal, individual and consequently, OR. It's like taking the animal kingdom, and instead of creating a template based on mammal, bird, reptile, etc, deciding to organise it based on colour or habitat or what the animals eat. Alcoholic beverages have been sorted and organised for years by the major groups. If you don't wish to be academic about it, pop into your local supermarket or drinks shop and note how the alcoholic beverages are sorted. The whiskies will be together, as will the gins, the beers, the wines, etc. They will not be organised by flavour. It would be more helpful if the template followed the organisation systems currently in use. And that is in use all over the world. As used by people who handle, make, sell, and write about alcoholic beverages. Anyway. Let's go through this bit by bit. Fermented beverages. At the moment this contains a random assortment of fermented beverages selected from those in this category. It doesn't, though, contain a link to that category. Nor does it identify which are the main groups in the fermented beverages category. I propose we:
If that approach is agreeable, we can then proceed to identify which are the main fermented beverages. I suggest we take the sub-categories already in place on Wikipedia in the parent fermented beverages category. These are: Category:Beer; Category:Cider; Category:Mead; Category:Rice wine; and Category:Wine. If other sub-categories are created in future, they can then be added to the template. SilkTork *YES! 09:02, 24 March 2009 (UTC)