This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
WPBio has a dozen different tables, which might be hyperbole, but not by much. I've taken a brief look at it and tried to make sense of it, but haven't really had much success. One of the challenges is to keep the BLP table outside the nested table. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)00:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes, that is indeed important, and the other container doesn't address that issue either.
If anything I'd contend that {{WPBiography}} is a special case which could be allowed to live on a talk page outside of any containers. It's quite an efficient usage of talk page space as it handles assessments for many different workgroups and WikiProjects, as well as displaying the living persons warning, the active politician warning, and maintenance messages like "photo needed". --kingboyk13:44, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Of course, I forgot that the other WikiProjects on those talk pages are behind the curve at the moment. :-) They haven't implemented the nesting option. Oh well. I still added WP:M-E to the list on the front page here. Carcharoth21:47, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I recently implemented this nifty template on {{WikiProject Alabama}}. I was wondering if I could view the source and/or somehow use this as a baseline to create a similar shell template for College & Pro coaching templates like {{AlabamaBasketballCoach}}. We're running into the same clutter problem from some of the more traveled coaches. Вasil | talk05:53, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
For some reason it seems, the {{WikiProject Chicago}} isn't working with their full template. It works fine if I am just stubbing it, but if I fill all the info, ie:
{{WikiProject Chicago|class =<!--FA/A/GA/B/C/Start/Stub/FL/List/NA/FM/Disambig/Redirect; other namespaces don't require class-->|importance =<!--Top/High/Mid/Low/NA-->|attention =<!--yes or remove it-->|needs-infobox =<!--yes or remove it-->|needs-photo =<!--yes or remove it-->|auto =|category =|listas =}}
Template:WPBiography – If needs-infobox = yes, it breaks out. This was left like that per project consensus.
Indeed; I found the discussion. I just take out needs-infobox and use {{infoboxrequested}}. Maybe I shouldn't be, but it's more standardised, looks better, and actually points people at what infobox they should be using. — Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 22:54, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm really going to have to learn the parser functions; {{WikiProject Caribbean}} is exhibiting similar behaviour and I can't for the life of me see why. I removed the only problem area I could spot but it doesn't seem to be fixed. — Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 00:58, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Just in case you didn't know, Stevie, you can also use the {{BannerShell}} template to get a temporary shell in place pending permission from the WikiProject to modify their template. It helps out a lot. :) I'll be posting a list shortly of most of the WikiProjects I've come across thus far that don't implement the nested parameter. I just have to look through my contributions and see where I noted that in my edit summary. — Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 15:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I just remove auto templates. You should just evaluate the article yourself. If you feel its of stub quality, mark it as such; if you think its better, like Start quality say so. If stub template is still present thats one of the indications of stub quality. As for Article Upgrading thats a bigger problem though. Most projects just use separate "To Do" list :/ Shinhan05:14, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Of course I assess an article and remove the auto tag when I come across it, but I envision random bots and AWB runs leaving hundreds of these in their wake daily, and was hoping the templates could at least be made compatible. The Film project is a big one, and again, the template is better fixed than ignored. TAnthony05:58, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
"auto=yes" never cooperates in any template that has it. Most of the projects just leave it - since it's so glaring, it's an incentive to rate the article, just to get rid of that box :) As for Film, take it up with them. I argued to collapse the "upgrading needed" - or at least make it fit the shell - but it's been kept the way it is. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)13:26, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Blank spaces
There are a ton of templates with blank spaces in them that cause problems in the shell, {{WPNI}} among them. I tried to fix it, but apparently I'm not very good at that. I saw a few other places where that could have caused the problem, but I didn't want to remove all the newlines. I leave it to someone who's better with template syntax.
I'm going to run a bot once the cleanup list has gotten smaller that'll detect those blank spaces; I have a small list but I haven't been good at maintaining it.
I also noticed a lot of templates making space at their bottom, but most of them loose that space if placed at the bottom of the BannerShell. WPNI on the other hand was the only one to still make space below itself even when placed at the bottom. Usual fixes where of course ineffective. So I copied that template to my sandbox and played around with it. Turns out if there is no comments for the target page the banner will output " " instead of just silently skipping execution. So, by removing that WPNI now shows no space at the bottom. Guys at WPNI are in the process of pruning the template, so do keep this template on your watchlist if they accidentally break it again. Shinhan15:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Dallas
Can somebody fix {{WikiProject Dallas-Fort Worth}}? Its breaking up the BannerShell if any of the following is set to yes: needs-infobox, attention, peer-review, old-peer-review. If neither of those is set to yes it works normally. Shinhan16:02, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
I've "updated" the following templates (among others), but they still don't seem to be working. Can someone familiar with the complexities troubleshoot them?
Spooky: After noticing {{Wikiproject MCB}} working fine elsewhere, I just solved the problem by switching the order of these two templates on Talk:Amino acid (putting {{WPMED}} before {{Wikiproject MCB}}). Any idea why that would make a difference? This quirk should be fixed if possible, or noted somewhere here. TAnthony05:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Well, your edits to change from WikiProjectBanners -> WikiProjectBannerShell have been reverted in both cases. However, in looking at the past versions, I see nothing wrong with either set of templates. Don't know why it wasn't working, but it seems to have been fixed? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)05:56, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
You're right, maybe it was a server-catchup thing. Anyway, Raul654 pointed out the mutual agreement not to convert WikiProjectBanners to WikiProjectBannerShell and vice-versa, but I was doing it to identify templates which are not compliant with WikiProjectBannerShell and update them. Any suggestion how to find them another way? Maybe there is no easy way, or you'd have done it already. TAnthony06:14, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
"Preview". Just do a preview instead of saving the page after changing to BannerShell and you'll see non-compliant projects without changing the talk page. If you wish to change banners to bannershell, you'll have to ask on each individual talk page. Shinhan11:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
For anyone else who may be interested, SatyrTN came up with the brilliant idea to compare Category:WikiProject banners with Template:WikiProjectBannerShell/Compliant banner list to identify non-compliant banners. Visiting links by letter on the Compliant banner list obviously makes them jump out in the category. I'm going to start to tackle this as a side project, but of course others are welcome; I've done some A's but I'll probably start with Z and work my way back to stay out of everyone else's way. TAnthony14:13, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
There are 1071 banners on the WikiProject banners list (if I counted correctly) and only 358 are BannerShell'd. Although the first list has a lot of "User:*/Sandbox". I dont think we should concern ourself with WikiProjects that are so insignificant that we didnt yet see them while working on the cleanup project. Shinhan16:43, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
By all means if there's another list of templates to focus on, let me know, but the cleanup project list seems to be empty. But the ultimate goal should be to get every template, no matter how small, because editors often use templates from one Project to invent others (I've done it myself) and the non-compliance only multiplies.
By the way, so far I've come across the following "differently-constructed" templates which don't seem to be an easy fix, so I'd ask the more experienced to give it a go (or leave them alone):
I need help on solving the problem of {{WPCompSciAssessment}} as evidenced on Talk:ANDOS. Anybody got an idea how to make the assesment fit inside its parent box and therefore get nested? 16:44, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Signing the assessment is not weird, but the layout is. I think the usual assessment procedure calls for making a subpage containing the actual assessment and then transcluding that inside the banner. Shinhan19:24, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Also, when people are converting project templates for compatibility (if you're not all done by now) you should leave a link to the project in the edit summary. When I first noticed the edit to the {{WikiProject Connecticut}} banner, I had no idea what was meant by nesting and only found out when about a week later I came across a page that had it's banners nested. —Elipongo (Talk|contribs) 08:41, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I always say "Implementing support for Template:WikiProjectBannerShell" in my edit summary. And thats a really good objection because there is nothing else to connect the banner editing with this project. Shinhan12:22, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Just a heads-up: Within a few days I hope to have my second task for MadmanBot approved; at that time, he will begin publishing daily a comprehensive report of all WikiProject banners' compliance with {{WikiProjectBannerShell}}.
Weird. A lot of banners marked with X have been BannersHell compliant for quite some time. How is your bot checking compliance? Shinhan05:33, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
There's also a {{WikiProjectBannerShell}}test page. This page uses all the WikiProject banners the bot has tentatively identified as compliant with {{WikiProjectBannerShell}}. Using this page, you can quickly find banners that were falsely identified as compliant, banners that have blank spaces after them when used in the shell, and banners with annoying additions such as {{todo}} that break out of the banner and into the shell. Don't mind all the "Warning: This template has been placed on a non talk page. This template should be placed on Talk pages only." warnings. Obviously they won't appear when the shell really is on a talk page. — Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 13:54, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Hey, the new report is awesome, thanks! As an update of my own progress, since my last note a couple of sections up I've "upgraded" every holdout template from N thru Z (and misc. others) in Category:WikiProject banners (like 400, if I may brag, heh heh), except of course for the following trickier ones, if anyone is up to the challenge:
(ec)Some banners create problems only if some specific parameters are also turned on. For example {{WikiProject Hinduism}}. Every parameter (except class and importance and similar) creates additional box above the main box. If the test page is bot generated make it sectioned, like I did it now by hand. That way I can view source only for the one section at a time (less loading time).
Retailing - I tried it again, but I have no idea how to solve the nested tables theyr using.
I'd appreciate it if somebody got go over all I've done now and check them up, fix if some problems are found... I already had to do some fixing on Taxation. Shinhan17:22, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Done?!
Um, I just finished my Z to A task on the banner category and I think it's possible that except for these tricky ones
Department of Fun has only one transclusion (and that in Wikipedia namespace), its not important. I have done other two. Shinhan10:11, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I've been going through and removing instances of {{BannerShell}} and updating templates that have had the nesting code inserted or whose nesting was broken. Right now, I'm down to about 100 uses.
Are there any pages that have BannerShell and WikiProject banners outside those shells? And can fixing that be automated (using that preg_replace from Madman's talk page)? Shinhan15:43, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
According to SatyrTN, his bot identifies those pages; mine does not. It is currently impossible for it to do so using the method it does. However, it is very thorough, and those pages would be in the minority; they'd get fixed eventually. That preg_replace would fix it, as long as you knew what banner was outside the shell, grabbed it, and all of its parameters, and removed it before the preg_replace so you didn't have a duplicate. — Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 17:06, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
I've added it to the WikiProject banners category but I just noticed that the template itself needs an expert's touch ... ;) TAnthony19:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, if you take out {{WikiProject College football}} it all works fine, and if you move it to the top the other WPs and everything after them actually disappear! I looked thru the template for a missing hidden-message-close (-->) or whatever, but ... TAnthony14:40, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
The above template has not been encoded for the nesting option. If anyone knows how to do so, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. John Carter16:08, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Is there a good reason for a WikiProject banner not being in WikiProject banner category? If not just add them to the group. If there is your report should check on them as well. — Shinhan < talk > 17:08, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
No, there's no good reason for a WikiProject banner not to be in that category. But there are some that are not. And they have not been evaluated for compliance. — Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 17:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I believe you should change the statement as above, specifying the category. But all editors applying the shell should realize that any non-compliant banners that come up are not in the category (and should be). So they need to be made compliant and added to the category. TAnthony21:40, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
If the goal is to add ALL WikiProject banners, then I guess there needs to be something done about it. I created three WikiProjects, and they seem to have been overlooked, whereas a couple of other WikiProjects that are basically sister projects descended from one of my own, have not been.
I am specifically flagged as a member of the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team, and as a participant of the WikiProject Council and, although I haven't participated directly in either for a while now, I don't recall having been notified about any improvements or developments regarding WikiProjects.
I can only conclude, therefore, that something is seriously amiss with regard to communication; this particular project; and the WikiProject scheme itself.
AND all three banners are members of the WikiProject Banners category, and has been in that category ever since they were created. So, whats the problem? — Shinhan < talk > 06:19, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
[de-indent] The problem is probably mine for not looking into this more thoroughly. However, when I did look, I noticed that none of the three projects I created were listed.. in a list that listed compatible projects(!) .. excuse my vagueness here! Also, I did attempt to add WPNI to an existing banner template without success. Again - probably my fault.
It may not be needed for the same purpose now that we're fully compliant, but it is certainly useful to calculate how many templates are compliant and to track which new banners are "added" (for nerds like myself who are interested in such things). TAnthony17:11, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Not sure what the problem was, but there is a recurring "error" (most often with the WP Bio banner, but others as well) where an extra space appears after a banner; moving that banner to the last position in the shell nearly always makes the space go away. It is an inconsistent issue and so far has not been able to completely eradicated.
I actually have a personal theory that the extra space may just be some kind of temporary fluke that is "fixed" as the servers update themselves; somehow in many cases it seems to miraculously fix itself later, as probably occurred with Talk:Russia, etc. For example, I recently added the shell to Talk:Celtic studies and noticed that the {{CornwallWikiproject}} banner created a space, so I reordered the banners and the space went away. Days later, in the edit history, the space does not appear in the preview of the old edit. I think mine is still the last edit on that talk page, check it out to see what I mean. TAnthony17:49, 16 July 2007 (UTC)