you have to belive what Prime-Minister S. Berlusconi said(about 1.000.000). And indeed there are many romanians there. I guess due to the very similar language. I've heard that as a romanian you can learn italian in 2 weeks. Anyway a romanian can understand at least 75% of the language without any hour of italian.--Bonaparte15:19, 24 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Martin, it seems to me e little bit curious that you don't want to take into account the official data given by a prime minister (that of the Italy)! It was made officially and is taken from the official site of Romanian Gvt. Now one more time, like prime minister said in the text, I am sorry you can't read romanian "we know there are even more than we estimate". Now, if you read the romanian newspaper, of how many work and have emigrated for good in other states, you will change your mind belive me. Ask how many have left Romania after 1990? There are several millions (aproximatively 3 million). Bonaparte talk17:34, 21 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Bonaparte, I am not interested in the uninformed and low quality thoughts of Berlusconi. If you can find a proper datasource -- either in Romania or in Italy -- which explains how they made the calculations, then it can be taken seriously. Until then, this information is useless [I am sorry to say]. --Martin Baldwin-Edwards20:45, 21 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
User:Bonaparte continually changing numbers in Romanians[edit]
You may have already noticed, but he's getting a bit out of hand now: Romanians. Antidote
Hey MBE, Bonaparte and Norbert continue their raid on Romanians. We may need to lock the page. Antidote
I am not disputing the veracity of your edits in [[[Greeks]], but they are off-topic. Since you have made all that research, please consider creating a timeline of Greek wars in the History of Greece article, these edits will be appropriate there. Regards, Sysin09:58, 26 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
While I find some aspects of folksonomy and open source fascinating, incidents like these make it appear truly deplorable.
I've been involved with the Mozilla project since its early days in 1998 and its progress was truly glacial, partially because of its organization, internal dynamics and quality problems. The recent popular success of Firefox goes back to the spirited action of a small group of highly gifted individuals.
Wikipedia reminds me in some aspects of this dynamics and although they have done a fantastic job to attract, harness and motivate scores of editors, it seems that they have a few things to learn about retention and quality management to learn ;-)
You've mentioned that you would like to bring this incident and your concerns about certain aspects of Wikipedia to the attention of Jimbo Wales. I'd urge you to do so -- I believe there are some truly enlightened minds on Wikipedia. I could also wholeheartedly recommend User:Grace Note as a good point of contact. Best Jbetak07:48, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. I am not placing blame on anyone, just regretting the fact that contributors such as Martin Baldwin-Edwards find it difficult to operate effectively within Wikipedia's framework.
Martin, I'd like to add to the sentiment expressed by Jbetak above- I too am very sorry to see a talented and professional editor such as you leave the project, although I can well understand given the level of invective and irrationality elicited from some quarters on the topics of Romanians, Greeks, and similar. I am currently away traveling, but was quite dismayed when briefly logging on to see the further shenanigans with the figures at Romanians despite your reasoned attempts and rational discourse. It's most unfortunate that the intemperate actions of a few colour the intentions of what I believe are most of us here who are attempting to improve information, without nationalistic or other axes to grind. In my experience such encounters are not the norm here, and most are able to conduct themselves appropriately- but like perhaps with any workplace where we don't choose our collegues, there seem to be those for whom friction is both a means and an end.
Anyway Martin, many thanks on behalf of the wider wikipedia community for the valuable and insightful contributions you have made, they have been appreciated. I would hope to see you back editing here one day again; in case not, I'd just like to wish you and yours all the best, and good luck on your endeavours- take care, and cheers.--cjllw | TALK00:48, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
