The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the debate was Keep. Gwernol 19:21, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
DeleteNon-notable game map. Prod was removed without comment Gwernol 15:24, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I hadn't been aware of the earlier AfD on Counter-Strike Maps. This is a Speedy Keep case, so I'm changing my opinion and closing it out. Gwernol 19:21, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Derivative cruft. See discussion below.--Fuhghettaboutit 15:42, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The map is just as notable as the other featured in List of Counter-Strike maps. It is an official map in both Counter-Strike 1.6 and Counter-Strike: Source. This map has an equal amount of content as the others, but could be tagged as a stub, if lack of content is your concern. I was the person who removed the prod tag after spending an hour adding content, because as the tag reads "You may remove this message if you improve the article, or if you otherwise object to deletion of the article for any reason." As far as I know, I followed protocol to the letter of the law, and yet we're served up for AfD. Does the nominator have a specific grudge against this map, this game, or me? David Bergan 15:43, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I agree that it is as notable as the other intergame maps, and believe that they are all derivative, non-notable fictional universe items that collectively should be deleted as autonomous articles; the coverage should end at Counter-Strike maps, Custom Counter-Strike maps etc., which can be appropriately expanded.--Fuhghettaboutit 16:07, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Aha. I see there was a previous nomination of all of these at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/De dust which ended with no consensus. I'm not sure that it would be useful to have a second nomination, but I certainly would have voted delete, merge or redirect.--Fuhghettaboutit 16:21, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Right. And since that discussion, the articles have improved both individually and collectively. Are we going to go through this once every month? David Bergan 16:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The improvement is not the issue. Better sourced, better written, but still cruft. However, I see no reason this should not be kept if the other, identically situated articles are to be kept, and until such time as they are re-nominated, if ever, striking my vote above because it's nonsensical under the circumstances.--Fuhghettaboutit 16:34, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I don't see any reason to pick on this article in particular; in fact, it's more common than some of the other maps in the category. The already-reached AfD should be enough to keep all official maps at the very least. --Varco 17:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I do not advocate the keeping of all computer game maps, as can be seen in some of my nominations such as Vampirism Revolution and I would vote to delete seperate Battlefield 2 maps such as Great Wall (Battlefield 2 map), which doesn't even appear in the main game. I do however believe that official counter-strike maps should be kept due to their popularity, for the same reason why I think that Simpsons' episodes are notable, but episodes of The Thick of It isn't. Here's a comment from the first nomination that I made, "I believe that there are currently more players on de_nuke alone, than there are readers of Concerned or people interested in SK Gaming. However, I think anyone interested in SK Gaming or esports, would definitely find the maps on which these events are held to be interesting and encyclopedic." And I stand by that. More people know this map inside out than read a webcomic such as Concerned (another Half-Life universe byproduct) and that was easily kept. And it's not like I would just keep everything Counter-strike related either, things like Surfing (Counter-Strike) and Kreedz Climbing, I'd probably side on delete. A good indication of how popular Counter-Strike is can be seen here, right now, there are just shy of 200,000 players which is more than Empires, Dystopia (computer game) and GoldenEye: Source combined and multiplied by around 50. It's also slightly better than some of the other counter-strike map articles. - Hahnchen 17:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Vic Viper 17:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Keep - While it's definately not the most popular of the CS maps, why are we singling this one out? I think every _official_ cs map deserves its own page, simply because without such familiar and well-known maps, CS would simply not be CS. --Rake 18:53, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per David Bergen. Articles have already been nominated and no consensus reached last month, and they've only _improved_ since then. Wikipedia... not paper! Tmorrisey 22:59, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
