The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Really? "He was an elite pilot in the Iranian Air Force and He mainly flew with Assadullah Adeli in the rear cabin" so what was he? The pilot or the radar intercept officer? Do you really think the page is Category:User en-5? Mztourist (talk)14:16, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If there is a problem with my edits, it would be great if you could fix it. I will never allow you to write to me for sarcasm. Here is Wikipedia. There should be no sarcasm here.--Patricia(Talk)19:11, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ignoring the GNG issues, the level of English on this page (and on the other Iranian pilot pages which have already been deleted) clearly does not meet the required standard and is certainly not en-5. Mztourist (talk) 07:57, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Patricia, thank you for your work improving coverage of the Iranian Air Force during the Iran-Iraq War. Their pilots did an amazing job.
I haven’t checked if this article’s subject is notable but if the English is low quality, there are plenty of people who can clean it up. Just ignore the criticism.
Mztourist, I'm happy to help if this article is kept. In the meantime, the quality of English is not the issue at hand - instead it's the subject's notability. Deletion ≠ cleanup; we don't delete articles for the quality of their prose.
Delete or possibly Merge with Assadollah Adeli. Sourcing on this one is weaker than the Adeli article, even though both appear to be WP:1E as noted earlier. This article has similar issues to the other Iranian pilot articles that have been here recently (scanty sourcing and poor quality text). Intothatdarkness15:21, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect that the topic is likely notable and therefore deserves to be kept - however I'm not sure it is ready for mainspace. For example there are two references that look different but are mirrors of each other. My advice to User:Patricia Mannerheim is to focus on finding high quality references in Persian that underline the notability of the topic. On the assumption that those exist, my !vote is to draftify until the necessary improvements in finding sources to WP:VERIFY statements in the article is completed. Finally I don't think the English is particularly bad and it would be improved during normal cleanup. JMWt (talk) 16:57, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I can only access the first and third ref. The first is largely about the F-14 Tomcat in Iranian service and the WP:1E, while the third is about the WP:1E, so they add nothing to his notability. Mztourist (talk) 03:00, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at the IP’s contributions, they appear very knowledgeable about aviation-related topics. I especially value their comments because of that.
I focus on the content of comments at AfDs, not the person making them. That’s how the closing admin will assess them in deciding on article retention.
User:A. B. there is no badgering here as you suggest. An IP who doesn't create an account but comes to AfD on what appears to be their first day on WP is inherently suspicious. So you value a 3 day old account as much as Users who have been here for years? Mztourist (talk) 08:28, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
comment first ref:title 6, ;line 143-174: translate to en:
Mohammad Masbouq: He was born in the1950 and died on 29 December 2021. In 1967, he was employed in the army's ground force and entered the officers' university as a student. It was the third year that a group of air force went to this university to recruit pilots and after meeting with them, he was placed in the quota of air force officers. In the same way, in 1970, he was sent to America after passing the preparations and preparatory flights with a Piper plane at Kalamghi Airport. He completed the T41 and T37 aircraft courses, but his T38 course was left unfinished. For this reason, he returned to the country in February 1972 and when the F14 aircraft arrived in Iran, Masbouq was selected for the rear cabin and was sent to America once again. In the summer of 1974, he returned to Iran and was first transferred to the 8th Shokri base in Isfahan, and in early 1975, he completed the F14 flight tactical course with the presence of American instructors, and in April, he was transferred to the 7th Shukri base in Shiraz. At that time, it was known as the 2nd transport base, and together with a group of his colleagues, he established the first Tomcat hunting battalion under the name of the 71st hunting tactical battalion. He was sent to America as a battalion commander or SOS in June 1979, and after the victory of the revolution, he returned to the country and continued to serve in the same battalion. On the day of the start of the imposed war, he flew with Yadullah Khalili at 14:30 to prevent another attack by Iraqi aggressor planes. At the end of his service, his record is decorated with more than 5200 operational, tactical and training flight hours. Shooting down 16 enemy planes, 12 of which were approved by the authorities, is one of his honors. He has previously spent 5 years and 4 months of the Holy Defense as the commander of the F-14 maintenance battalion at the 7th Shokri base in Shiraz. He retired in August 2000 with the rank of second brigadier and 32 years of service. The famous memory of this pilot is related to the second day of 7 January 1981, when he went in the rear cockpit of 1st Lieutenant Asadullah Adeli to counter the attack of three Iraqi MiG planes. He fired the Phoenix missile from a distance of 38 miles towards the plane in the middle of the group of three planes, and by destroying the target, two other birds were also destroyed due to the explosion and fire of the plane. Another past memory is from the war of November 22, 1980, when they were patrolling the Persian Gulf with Captain Iraj Siros in a night flight. They heard the voice of Captain Hossein Del Hameed, who landed in the water with an umbrella after falling and was asking for help between Bushehr and Bandar Imam. Masbouq says he was wandering in the sea for nearly 10 hours when they heard his voice. After determining the position of Del Hamid, the F14 rescue helicopter tried to rescue the pilot. Del Hamid was released from the life ring due to physical weakness and fell into the water again. However, more than 52 hours later, when everyone had given up hope that he was alive, he was again pulled from the water by a fishing boat. Another previous memory is related to the martyrdom of the pilot Mohammad Hashem Al-Agha on August 9, 1984, the day when the Tomcats were supposed to cover the first half of the convoy of merchant ships and oil tankers in the Persian Gulf. He was flying from Isfahan base. The last flight of this day was carried out by Colonel Mohammad Hashem Al-Agha and his rear cabin lieutenant Mohammad Rostampour. Previously, he accompanied Captain Asadollah Adeli, who flew from Shiraz and was supposed to replace Al-Agha and Rostampour, in this mission. In this mission, despite previous warnings to Al-Agha, this martyred pilot announced that he wanted to target the enemy plane with a thermal missile, when Al-Agha and Rustampur's plane was attacked by enemy fighters and crashed.
I am definitely not here to please you. Believe me, I'm here to edit an article according to policies. I don't mind if an admin doesn't approve the edit for recognition. But I will continue to try until the end of this conversation.—Patricia (Talk) 14:13, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Final relist. Participants are reminded that the purpose of AfD discussions is to discuss the merits of whether an article should be kept or not. I recommend that participants — on the side of both keep and delete — discuss systematically and in detail which sources they believe do or do not confer notability. {{SAT}} may be beneficial for such an analysis. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, KevinL (aka L235·t·c) 02:43, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
