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Nominator's rationale: Typically, this category scheme was created when albums are recorded in a notable venue thus making it somewhat of a defining aspect of the album, such as Category:Albums recorded at Abbey Road Studios. There doesn't seem to be any novelty to this studio that makes it any more noteworthy that an album was recorded there. Many of the articles don't even or barely mention the studio. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me23:45, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I'll admit I am not aware of the reputation of this Japanese studio, but we currently have no article on it. On what source is this categorization based? Dimadick (talk) 19:28, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Television series by Pinewood Studios[edit]
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Nominator's rationale: The current name is unclear, and confuses the location of filming with the company that did the filming. Trivialist (talk) 23:20, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comments There is a bit of ambiguity here. The term Pinewood Studios apparently refers to a studio facility in Buckinghamshire, where numerous films have been filmed since its foundation in 1936. The Studios itself used to be a subdivision of the Rank Organisation and several films shot there were affiliated with the company. But it has long been standard practice for the corporate parents of this studio facility to license its use by whatever other studio or company can afford it. Several of the films filmed in the facility were productions by Eon Productions, ITC Entertainment, Warner Bros., Brandywine Productions, etc. The only thing these films have in common is their filming location, not their corporate ownership. Dimadick (talk) 13:45, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Question Is the physical location of where a television show was made even defining enough to be categorized by? Do we want to put Batman v. Superman and Transformers in the same category because they both have their iconic, culminating battle scenes shot at the Michigan Central Station in Detroit?John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:13, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The location of film and the company that did the filming are distinct questions. The very fact that my question about whether we want to categorize all films with shots of the Michigan Central Station together is called "odd" tells me we do not really know what these categories are doing, and if we do not know what the category does, there is no way to know what does and what does not go in the category, and thus we should delete the category as too ambiguous to be useful.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:10, 27 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: The current name is unclear, and confuses the location of filming with the company that did the filming. Trivialist (talk) 23:20, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Right and one of the subcategories of the nominated category is Category:James Bond films, which, again, do not list an entity "Pinewood Studios" as production company, but rather Eon Productions, which does state that Eon "also operates from Pinewood Studios." Still, this is just going to confuse people. Fooian Films films is reserved for films by studio, not films shot at a Fooian soundstage. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 21:33, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)You are correct Shawn in Montreal. It is just a production facility/soundstage, so the proper name for this category is "Films shot at Pinewood Studios". However, it may need further dabbing, as there is now a prominent branch of the studio in Atlanta, GA, meaning as proposed to rename now, those films would be allowed in the cat, even though it is meant for the films shot in the UK. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:34, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I see. If you're now creating other stuff as a way of bolstering the case for this, that doesn't leave me very confident, I'm afraid. My oppose remains. I think it should probably be deleted flat-out, but I won't stand in the way if others feel strongly about renaming in some way. thanks, Shawn in Montreal (talk) 17:51, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not creating to bolster anything. I'm create cats as they should be, as you yourself pointed out above, Pinewood Studios is a shooting location, not a producer, which is 100% correct. I'm confused about your stance to still oppose, when you yourself suggested it be named "Films shot at Pinewood Studios" in the first place. Can you clarify this to me? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:54, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I suggested it as a possibility. But I asked the question: is there was precedent for this. So you then sort of created one. I'm very cautious when it comes to creating potentially huge categories ad hoc. We also have Pinewood Toronto Studios. We going to create categories for every sound stage in the world where films are shot at? People may decide this overcategorization, as a sort of form of WP:OCVENUE. And they may very well be right. If it were me, I would have probably raised the matter at the WikiProject Film before starting a new branch in this way. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:18, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know how many other soundstages actually have articles on here beyond Shepperton and the Pinewood Group. That to me would be the first basis for creating a cat, along with the fact a film is sourced as actually filming there. So these Pinewood cats, plus the Shepperton one (renamed) and one for Toronto would be fine and not overcategoriztion in my opinion. These are useful cats for films. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:42, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Category:Films shot at Pinewood Studios" would be fine, though reading the discussion I'm starting to lean more towards Shawn in Montreal's concern about this being overcategorization. Trivialist (talk) 21:34, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Category:Films shot at Pinewood Studios It seems reasonable to have categories for major production facilities. It seems to me that there is a stronger rationale for having a category for films shot at Pinewood Studios than there is for films shot in Buckinhamshire (which is where Pinewood is located and which a category also exists for). Some of these facilities (Pinewood/Elstree/Shepperton) have rich production histories and have had books written about them (see Pinewood Studios: 70 Years of Fabulous Film-making) so it seems like a logical extension of the current categorization to have a category that groups together films shot at Pinewood. Betty Logan (talk) 19:00, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the discussion was:merge ("One franchise, one category" doesn't make much sense here in light of the extensive nature of the parent category. Such a change would require a very broad discussion.) Good Ol’factory(talk)00:32, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note – It seems many of the season 1 episodes are categorized in the parent category rather than the subcategory, but the nomination still stands, too few episode articles overall. nyuszika7h (talk) 15:30, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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In addition to what was already stated, being someone's kin is a trivialization of categorization guidelines. Due to WP:COPDEF such categories would only contain people who are exclusively known for being someone's kin, making such categories perennially incomplete which isn't encyclopedically helpful. The only two solutions are categories like the abovementioned Category:De Valera family or listifying. Brandmeistertalk11:29, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Brandmeister: I'll try again. Please look at the articles, where you will see that the people so categorised are indeed defined by their relationship to a Taoiseach. While you are at it, re-read WP:COPDEF. It does not say that such categories would only contain people who are exclusively known for being someone's kin. What it does say is that people should be categorised only for attributes related to their notability ... and in these cases, being related to a Taoiseach is an important part of their notability. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 14:00, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Brandmeister: and @BrownHairedGirl: I took BHG's kind advice and read WP:COPDEF. The pertinant section, as I see it, was the scope. It says: “Currently, people tend to be categorized by the following broad categories…By association, By ethnicity, gender, religion, sexuality, disability, medical or psychological conditions, By the person's name, By nationality and occupation, By place, By year”. Regarding Association, the guide is “Currently, Wikipedia supports categorizing People by educational institution and People by company, as well as numerous more specific categories.”. So that seems to remove any ground for "kin of" type categorisation. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:41, 2 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Laurel Lodged: that's very silly reasoning. The phrase tend to be categorized by the following is descriptive rather prescriptive, and it is tentative rather than definitive. It in no sway precludes the many other ways in which people are categorised. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 16:07, 2 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Reply Perhaps the nominator thought it unnecessary to burden us with too many words in the expectation that voters would click on the rationale provided in the close precedent that he cited. It appears that BHG was on the losing side of that debate. The rationale provided in the precedent was "The US has no formal title or informal cultural role for brothers and sisters of Presidents like we do for First Ladies. Now many of these people are defined by being a relative of some sort with the President which is why all 50 articles are also under their specific family category in". The analogy with Irish political families is very strong IMHO (e.g. Category:De Valera family, Category:Cosgrave family, Category:Lemass family). That's enough homework for the minute. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:05, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Once again, an extraordinary refusal to analyse whether WP:DEFINING applies to any of the articles in these categories. Do you intend to keep this up until we get to DRV, or do you want to address it beforehand? --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 09:27, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment -- It is well accepted that notability is not inherited. However, if a person is independently notable (and so has an article), it would be ridiculous not to have a category that noted the relationship. I note several of the articles are redirects, presumably because they are not independently notable. In other cases we get disreputable relatives used for COATHANGER attacks. Nevertheless, mergeCategory:Fathers of Taoisigh and Category:Mothers of TaoisightoCategory:Parents of Taoisigh. WE might even merge them all to Category:Close kin of Taoisigh, defined as parents and children (only). Peterkingiron (talk) 10:37, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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I would have said merge, but if they are already all in the parent, Delete. The category is not big enough to need splitting by city. Peterkingiron (talk) 10:27, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Sorry, I should note that the article White Walkers was also placed in this new category, but I removed it because these fictional creatures are not wights (though in-universe they apparently create wights). Even so, two items in a category would be equally unnecessary.— TAnthonyTalk15:37, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: Criminals by race, religion, sex is a trivial characteristic. No need to break these up by sex; it seems that very few articles on criminals have been so categorized and rather than creating a whole tree where one isn't needed, it ought to go now. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:13, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for now, until the subcats are deleted. This is basically a container category, and deleting it while leaving the subcats in place merely makes it harder to find the categories in which articles are actually placed. I agree that in general categorising criminals by sex is an irrelevant intersection, which breaches WP:CATGRS. So I looked at the subcats to see if there were any which might actually be potentially valid categories, but I couldn't find any. So I would happily support a nomination to delete this category once its subcats have been deleted or merged ... but so long as the subcats exist, so should this category. I suggested that the nominator withdraw this proposal, and open a new nom which includes the subcats. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 18:02, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: Criminals by race, religion, sex is a trivial characteristic. No need to break these up by sex; it seems that very few articles on criminals have been so categorized and rather than creating a whole tree where one isn't needed, it ought to go now. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:13, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete category based on trivial distinction. We've long since established and repeatedly reiterated that this kind of category does not belong here. It's hard to believe I have to repeat this. Doczilla@SUPERHEROLOGIST09:57, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for now, until the subcats are deleted. This is basically a container category, and deleting it while leaving the subcats in place merely makes it harder to find the categories in which articles are actually placed. I agree that in general categorising criminals by sex is an irrelevant intersection, which breaches WP:CATGRS. So I looked at the subcats to see if there were any which might actually be potentially valid categories, but I couldn't find any. So I would happily support a nomination to delete this category once its subcats have been deleted or merged ... but so long as the subcats exist, so should this category. I suggested that the nominator withdraw this proposal, and open a new nom which includes the subcats. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 18:01, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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While this may be irrelevant to the merits of the category, please note that there is concern it was created by a sockpuppet of an editor who previously created a similar category. SPI here. DonIago (talk) 14:31, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It seems almost certain that this is yet another sockpuppet of someone who has kept creating these categories for more than 10 years despite warnings and category deletions. Doczilla@SUPERHEROLOGIST19:19, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete While not exactly the same as previous categories of this nature, there is still consensus that these categories should not exist. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:22, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: The category is actually the same one I had proposed for deletion some time ago, and which was deleted. It was not populated by just Coulson and Selvig back then: it was populated by lots of comic book characters, with Coulson and Selvig being the only examples of actual MCU characters. Cambalachero (talk) 18:22, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: Only six articles - but more importantly the parent Gujarati-language films category only has about 30 articles, so it's not going to get within a bull's roar of the stub threshold in the foreseeable future. Delete, and upmerge the template to Category:Indian film stubs. Grutness...wha?13:03, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Where do you propose the stubs to go, then? It's the immediate parent, and it only has 259 stubs, so it's not "too broad" for stub-sorting purposes. Since stub sorting categories are for maintenance, not navigation, breadth isn't really of overriding importance - the number of stubs within a category is. Ther'll be noting to stop it getting its own category once it's reached the required 60+ stubs, but for now, upmerging it into its immediate parent makes the most sense - as is already done with {{Assamese-film-stub}} and {{Bhojpuri-film-stub}}. Grutness...wha?13:37, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Support -- A few of the organisations may be inter-governmental bodies, rather than societies, but otherwise the difference is largely one of name, but there are societies in both. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:37, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the discussion was:no consensus. We're not going to keep moving categories back and forth as editors move around the main article. Achieve a stable article title at WP:RM and then renominate as necessary. ~ Rob13Talk06:02, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment (this applies to all these categories) - isn't the more usual term "comedy-horror" (in that order and hyphenated)? I've only ever heard the term "horror comedy" a couple of times (both, IIRC, from American sources - perhaps its another US English vs Commonwealth English problem...), but "comedy-horror" is widespread as a term here. I'd have changed the article rather than the categories. Grutness...wha?12:54, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. We the term "comedy horror" more on Wikipedia. The title of the article has already been changed (although it really shouldn't have been changed while this CfD was in progress. Doczilla@SUPERHEROLOGIST09:59, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Rename. "Horror comedy" is the more common term. I'll quote what I said in another CFD: Doing a Google search at Fangoria, there are 1120 hits for "horror comedy" and 62 for "comedy horror". At Variety, there are 912 for "horror comedy" and 107 for "comedy horror". And, at Starburst, there are 158 hits for "horror comedy" and 61 for "comedy horror". Both Shaun of the Dead and The Rocky Horror Picture Show are described as "horror comedy" films in their articles, and these are probably the most prominent British examples. And Starburst is a British magazine. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 18:58, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose/Wrong Venue The name of the main article needs to be formally settled in an RM discussion since there are varying opinions. After that I would favor speedy renaming the categories. Moving a content discussion about the article to the CFD board isn't the right venue. RevelationDirect (talk) 04:06, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Tamil television series endings by year[edit]
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Nominator's rationale: Unlike the remaining categories in Category:Television series debuts by country, Tamil isn't actually a country but a language. We don't even split Category:American television series debuts by year by language so I don't see the need to do it for Indian shows. Now, from what I can tell, every category here relates to a television series in India so I'm suggesting merger into the India category. If I'm wrong, then we can split the individual series into Sri Lanka which I presume is the only other country at issue here. Ricky81682 (talk) 01:06, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Parallel to this CFD discussion, unlike the remaining categories in Category:Television series endings by country, Tamil isn't actually a country but a language. Category:American television series endings doesn't get broken down by language so I don't see the need to do it for Indian shows. Now, from what I can tell, every category here relates to a television series in India so I'm suggesting merger into the India category. If I'm wrong, then we can split the individual series into Sri Lanka which I presume is the only other country at issue here. Ricky81682 (talk) 01:27, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment & rename: You're right, Tamil not country, but is a one of the state language in Tamil Nadu and also a national language in sri lanka, and on of the official language Singapore. Should they be Category:2016 Tamil television series debuts. with the parent Category:2016 Tamil Language television series debuts If so? i think is a correct decision --Arnav19 (talk) 10:28, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Again, how is language defining when literally no other television series subdivision is by language rather than by country? Again, there's no split of American television series into English, Spanish or other languages, which is another country that have those. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 19:09, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note that I combined the two nominations as there clearly should only be a single discussion and decision. @Ricky81682 and Arnav19: please revise your rationale resp. comment, removing redundancies. PanchoS (talk) 20:45, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, if they are somewhere else, then they should be organized by country like the rest. We don't have Spanish language television series debuts combining Spain and Mexico. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 19:09, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Independent politicians in the United States[edit]
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The result of the discussion was:no action. S. Rich or other editors may consider submitting a fresh nomination to propose renaming or merging all 49 state subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:52, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment@Srich32977: What a mess! It might be defining that someone does not have a political party when they are elected to the US Senate or the like, but being a private citizen who doesn't register with a political party is not meaningful per WP:OCASSOC. I was looking mainly at the Delaware sub-category based on my familiarity: Jan C. Ting switched his party registration form Indep. to Rep. to run for the U.S. senate; his registration status as a private citizen is hardly defining. John Cook (governor) is listed because many offices in post-colonial America were initially non-partisan (and there are a lot of similar examples). Looking more broadly, there are a lot of political parties with "independent" or "independence" in their name so the meaning here could be unclear to readers from different countries. Category:Independent politicians in the People's Republic of China is also a mess: these are political dissidents in a context where opposition parties are banned; their lack of a party affiliation is both obvious and non-defining. So, at the least, rename and purge but I'm not totally sold this is a viable tree: we normally do not categorize by things that the article is not so I'm not sure these should even be kept.
My suggestion would be to purge the categories of all articles that don't have to do with politicians who held a major office while not registered with a major party. Let's see where we end up and go from there. I'm guessing this will eventually be deleted outright, but maybe there's enough politicians where this is defining to make it worthwhile. Bernie Sanders comes to mind as an example of someone who was defined by his party registration until his recent presidential campaign. ~ Rob13Talk06:11, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: Disney TV category are changing, so the time has to come to merge the ABC Studios category into the Disney category, but the Lucasfilm and Saban categorys will say. 47.54.189.22 (talk) 00:30, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment ABC Studios is a production label, not a true production company, its a company founded by Disney in 1985 as Touchstone Television, then it was rebranded under the ABC name, as the name Touchstone was fading out. 47.54.189.22 (talk)
Oppose -- If shows are branded as ABC, we should categorise them so. Disney should be there as a parent. Furthermore, it is inappropriate for shows made by ABC when it did not belong to Disney to be in a Disney category. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:41, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose / Speedy close – Nominator is a blocked sockpuppet and has made similar nominations that make no sense and have been widely opposed before. nyuszika7h (talk) 12:35, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Television series by Disney–ABC Domestic Television[edit]
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Nominator's rationale: Trivialist is changing the Disney TV categorys around, so time to merge the DADT category into the Disney category. 47.54.189.22 (talk) 00:26, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: 47.54.189.22 has been trying to merge all Disney-related TV categories into one category for a while now. I'm not sure why he/she is using me rearranging some category hierarchies as an excuse to merge these categories. Trivialist (talk) 01:51, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment DADT is a production label not a true production company, it is a label of Disney for distribution of its library, syndication programs. 47.54.189.22 (talk)
Oppose / Speedy close – Nominator is a blocked sockpuppet and has made similar nominations that make no sense and have been widely opposed before. nyuszika7h (talk) 12:35, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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