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Still think Curtis needs to be an addition to the list. Kaleidoscopic God (talk) 02:43, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
I agree agree with you on maybe the musicians section is bloated just a tad, however relating to the soul section itself it IS under-represented considering one of the most quintessential soul musicians isn't even in the list. To tell you the truth I find it quite surprising he isn't in there. It's a tough decision, but I think Sam Cooke would be better swapped by Curtis. Kaleidoscopic God (talk) 20:10, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
@Cobblet: Do you think these are sockpuppets? PointsofNoReturn (talk) 22:41, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
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I believe she should be added to the list due to her elevated fame after her death and other honors established as a result. Best, jona(talk) 18:59, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
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It is North America's third tallest mountain (also a volcano) at over 18,000 feet tall. it is dormant but not extinct with its last eruption occurring in the 19th Century. It is the second most prominent volcanic peak after Mount Kilimanjaro. As Mexican geography is lacking on the list, the addition of this mountain would be a good addition for the list.
I really would've preferred adding the Trans-Mexican Volcanic Belt instead. I think mountain ranges are usually more vital than individual mountains, e.g. Sierra Nevada (unsuccessfully removed in a previous !vote) vs. Mount Whitney (successfully removed) or the Alps vs. Mont Blanc or the Matterhorn. Cobblet (talk) 20:30, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
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Let's try this again. In an earlier proposal to remove this it was suggested that with a population of 8 million, this "is one of the largest manufacturing centres in the world". This is true; but according to Brookings, Suzhou, Wuxi, Foshan, Ningbo and Tangshan were all cities with larger GDPs (in 2012) that aren't on our list. And all those cities have a longer history than Dongguan, which was a rural agricultural area before the '80s (its previous claim to fame was its lychee). I doubt anyone here would consider Karlsruhe vital and we have previously removed Portland, Oregon from the list: these were two other cities with GDPs larger than Dongguan's in 2012 (although it's very possible that Dongguan's passed them since). Other cities with GDPs larger than Dongguan's that we don't include are Malaga, Abu Dhabi and Baltimore: I would rather add all of those in place of Dongguan. We've already included the more notable cities of Guangzhou, Hong Kong, Shenzhen and Macau from the Pearl River delta; we don't need Dongguan as well. Foshan is both a bigger manufacturing centre and much more culturally vital.
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Abu Dhabi is the capital of the United Arab Emirates. With a population of almost 1 million, it is the second largest city in the UAE. Abu Dhabo is ranked 9th in per capita GDPs for cities at $49,600 due to its massive oil supply. It is the largest oil producer in the UAE. The airport in the city is a vital hub for travelers heading anywhere in the Near East, acting as a hub for flights to India, the Middle East, and the rest of the world. Considering that the Middle East is underrepresented in the city section, Abu Dhabi seems like a fair city to add to the list.
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Domestic partnership is very similar to Civil Union, some countries refer to civil union as "domestic partnership". Much more important and different topic is Marriage of convenience, wich is covers both heterosexual and homosexual relations.
The three are very different concepts: Civil Union is much like a marriage for LGTB. Domestic partnership is living together without marriage and marriage of convenience is a whole different animal. I would support the straight add, but domestic partnership shouldn't be removed. --Melody Lavender 14:24, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
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We cover much anatomy and biology including many organs, tissues, chemicals etc some I would regard as more speciallized/expert articles and less vital than the hand. The hand is important to the human body and human evolution but nothing really covers it other than articles like human anatomy, and the things which hands are made of, eg. muscle and bone. Carlwev 00:14, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
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A hormone that has recently grown to be considered among the most important in producing behavior and emotion in humans - particularly in promoting prosocial behavior and emotional bonds between partners and parents/children. We have 5 hormones, and I think we could add a couple of more. Oxytocine is at least as vital as epinephrine and plant hormone.
Suggested above. It is a vital type of hormone in the human body, containing many different hormones such as cortisone. Synthetic steroids have been made to imitate this type of hormone. As one of the major classes of hormones, it should be on the list.
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Better known as the sabre-toothed tiger, the Smilodon is one of the best-known prehistoric animals. Because of that, people will be curious to read about it. It's popular, very popular.
I will probably support this. I noticed that Smilodon was missing when proposed to remove mastodon. At the time there were two extinct elephant-like animals (now there's only mammoth) but no sabre-toothed tigers, which I thought was bit of an anomaly. In comparison to other extinct animals, I would probably have smilodon before 8 different species of dinosaur though others may have different opinions. Gizza (t)(c) 13:32, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
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Esox is the genus of fish commonly called pike or pickerel. I think it might be better to list the most notable species of Esox than the genus itself. Northern pike are a popular sport fish in the Northern Hemisphere and it was Wikiproject Fishes's 79th most popular article last month.
Swapping the family for its most notable member, which was 35th in popularity on WP:FISH last month. (Gourami was 280th.)
There are other species of Gourami that are popular as pets but I'm not sure if they're popular enough to be vital. Gizza (t)(c) 23:51, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
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We list mackerel and tuna, two notable tribes of the Scombridae. I suggest adding the next most notable tribe, the bonitos (146th most popular WP:FISH article) and removing the family altogether (347th) and adding the second most commonly fished species in the world by tonnage, the Alaska pollock. Your Filet o'Fish, fish sticks and surimi are all made from this species.
I just realized bonito probably gets a lot of hits because people are looking for skipjack tuna, which is sometimes also called the oceanic bonito, but is classified as a tuna. It's the third most commonly caught fish in the world, behind the Peruvian anchoveta (we don't list that but we do list anchovy) and the Alaska pollock. Cobblet (talk) 20:16, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Just a clerical note. Are all the support votes for the current proposal with our without adding the bonito? PointsofNoReturn (talk) 02:44, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
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It is as vital as molecular orbital theory (see the lede of the valence bond theory article).
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More important to the Earth than many individual lakes and rivers etc, and more vital. We have Ozone, but Ozone itself only makes up a small percentage of the Ozone layer, and I believe the ozone layer in itself is looked up, studied and read about just as much if not more than ozone is alone. It is well studied by experts, interesting to general readers and is often in the media due to it's depletion....I was also looking at Ozone depletion as a potential article, but the ozone layer itself is probably enough, thoughts? Carlwev 00:36, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Would anyone prefer ozone layer over ozone depletion? This seems like a 50-50 argument. PointsofNoReturn (talk) 04:02, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
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From plywood to (reinforced) concrete to fibreglass to Kevlar to graphite-fibre sports equipment, composite materials are ubiquitous in modern society and are one of the most significant technological innovations of the last century.
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Swapping the historical profession for the technique which is still very much relevant today.
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There are many ways in which material properties can be usefully altered by the application of heat: quenching's just one of them.
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It's a famous symbol of London but is of little significance as a work of engineering. Many iconic symbols of important world cities aren't listed (e.g. Arc de Triomphe, Brandenburg Gate, St. Basil's Cathedral, Merlion, Willis Tower) and London's already got Palace of Westminster on the list.
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Techniques/machines that are part and parcel of modern medicine.
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Per above discussion. A telescope that hasn't even been launched yet is not vital. We don't really know what its impact will be. We can only speculate.
Thoughts on removing the Herschel Space Observatory and the Spitzer Space Telescope? IMO one space telescope is enough for the list (Hubble Space Telescope), and they don't stand out as more vital than several other spacecraft/space missions not listed like Cassini–Huygens, Mir, Galileo, Pioneer 10, the Viking program, Spirit and Opportunity, or Voyager 2. I'm not even sure if they're more vital than the other unlisted space telescopes like the Chandra X-ray Observatory. Malerisch (talk) 12:41, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
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Per above as well. If we don't list any specific examples of notable cars (Ford Model T) or aircraft (North American P-51 MustangorBoeing 747), we shouldn't be listing more than a few specific examples of space vehicles. Proton seems to be the least notable example of the ones we have listed, so I'm nominating it for removal. Malerisch (talk) 15:15, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
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Basic concept in analytical geometry.
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I was surprised that this article is not on the list. The Dewey Decimal System is perhaps one of the most fundamental parts of mathematics. It is everywhere in math and is often a substitute for fractions. The value of an irrational number is estimated using decimals. Significant figures in chemistry and other sciences also rely on decimals. Mile/kilometer markers also rely on decimals. The metric system relies on decimals too. Given the importance of decimals, this article should be on the list, perhaps even on the level 3 list.
errr....Time to withdraw this one....PointsofNoReturn (talk) 16:26, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
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Ranbir Raj Kapoor (14 December 1924 – 2 June 1988), also known as "The Show Man", was a noted Indian film actor, producer and director of Hindi cinema. He was the winner of two National Film Awards and nine Filmfare Awards in India, and a two-time nominee for the Palme d'Or grand prize at the Cannes Film Festival for his films Awaara (1951) and Boot Polish (1954). His performance in Awaara was ranked as one of the top ten greatest performances of all time by Time magazine. His films attracted worldwide audiences, particularly in Asia and Europe. The Government of India honoured him with the Padma Bhushan in 1971 and the Dadasaheb Phalke Award in 1987 for his contributions towards Indian cinema. He was called the Clark Gable of the Indian film industry.--Skr15081997 (talk) 10:28, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
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Thomas H. Ince (November 16, 1882 – November 19, 1924) was an American silent film producer, director, screenwriter, and earlier an actor. He was a pioneering studio mogul who made more than 600 films. Known as the "Father of the Western", he invented many mechanisms of professional movie production, introducing early Hollywood to the "assembly line" system of filmmaking. He wrote the screenplay for The Italian (1915), and directed Civilization (1916), both films selected for preservation by the United States National Film Registry. He was a partner with D.W. Griffith and Mack Sennett in the Triangle Motion Picture Company, and built his own studios in Culver City, which later became the legendary home of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer.--Skr15081997 (talk) 10:38, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
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Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (French: [pjɛʁ ʒɔzɛf pʁudɔ̃]; 15 January 1809 – 19 January 1865) was a French politician, the founder of Mutualist philosophy. He was the first person to declare himself an anarchist and is among its most influential theorists. He is considered by many to be the "father of anarchism". He became a member of the French Parliament after the revolution of 1848, whereafter he referred to himself as a federalist.
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Aleksandr Aleksandrovich Karelin (Russian: Александр Александрович Карелин; born 19 September 1967) is a Hero of the Russian Federation and retired Greco-Roman wrestler for the Soviet Union and Russia. Nicknamed the "Russian Bear",[1] "Russian King Kong",[2] "Alexander the Great" and "The Experiment", he is considered the greatest Greco-Roman wrestler of all time.[3][4] Karelin won gold medals at the 1988, 1992 and 1996, as well as a silver in the 2000 Olympic Games. His wrestling record is 887 wins and two losses.[5][6] Karelin was the national flag bearer at three consecutive Olympics: in 1988 for the Soviet Union, in 1992 for the Unified Team, and in 1996 for Russia.
He is the greatest Russian athlete purely by accomplishments and between 1994-2000 was not only undefeated, he never even had a point scored against him in any match. He was the most dominant wrestler in history. –– Lid(Talk) 02:53, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
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We list the Lines of latitude, the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn but not the general area, The Tropics, I think a real encyclopedia would have it the other way round. Much of the articles about the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn, are lists of countries they pass through. While there is other information too, it's included or could be included in the tropics article too. I'm not suggesting removing the lines of latitude here though, although it could be discussed. Compare to the Arctic, we do list the Arctic Circle in addition to arctic, so we could have the tropic circles in addition to the tropics, however the Arctic itself is higher priority vital article appearing in the 1000 list, so I would think the Tropics article itself, is equal or slightly more important than the articles about tropics of cancer and capricorn. We list several geographic zones/types but not this major one, it would fit in well; the article is quite short, much could be added to it, so it may benefit being added here. Carlwev 10:50, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
I note that tropical climate, wet season and dry season are all listed. I think listing the tropics is a good idea, but I also think we should remove at least the tropical seasons. Cobblet (talk) 17:52, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
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This is a curiosity, not a foundational work of Western literature. The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter would be a better example of a culturally significant piece of early literature with science-fiction themes.
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We already have a more famous example of Bach's keyboard works in The Well-Tempered Clavier. If we really needed a fourth example of Bach's work I would choose the Bach cantatas as being the most significant component of his oeuvre not already listed.
The article is huge in English, but it only appears in 3 language Wikipedias, English, Japanese and Italian, it's not even in German, Bachs homeland. Only suggestive but other languages haven't yet seen this as vital enough to even start an article at all about it. Carlwev 15:32, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
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Again popular tunes that don't have much significance beyond being recognizable. At least tunes like White Christmas (song)orYou've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' can claim to have sold a lot of copies or played many times. If the Dies irae isn't vital I don't see how these have a better case to be made for them.
User:Purplebackpack89, all sorts of popular Christmas carols exist, and we already have White Christmas listed. Why is it vital that we include a second example? It's the refusal to address questions like these that leads to bloat on the list. Cobblet (talk) 23:19, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
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Not really essential if we're only listing ~20 pieces of classical music. Chopin and Schumann both wrote sets of piano pieces that are both more significant and better known than this work by Liszt. Even Liszt's own Hungarian RhapsodiesorTranscendental Études are more famous.
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IMO, no work of the postwar avant-garde in classical music is vital enough to be listed (forget about compositions: we don't even list composers like Webern, Messiaen, Lutosławski, Ligeti or Reich), and even if there was one, I don't this is the best candidate.
I hate to pick on classical music for removals but this is the music I know best. If someone wants to look through the pop songs (many of you probably have already, it's not like we haven't gone through this before) they could probably use a similar trim. Cobblet (talk) 01:22, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Works of music in general can shrink I think. I do dislike many albums, like Rumours by Fleetwood Mac, when we don't have the band themselves. I don't think we need a Marvin Gaye album among many others either. Also works of visual art, namely paintings seems to be a list of many non vital articles, The Treachery of Images, The Blue Boy etc Carlwev 18:03, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
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Of all the nationalistic songs we could've picked, did we have really to pick Dixie? Let's be a little more neutral and just add the article that describes their purpose and history in general. (I think it's futile task trying to pick a specific national anthem or song: everyone knows God Save the Queen, the Marseillaise, The Star-Spangled Banner, Waltzing Matilda, Sakura Sakura and Hava Nagila.)
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I removed the section named "sweet things" as it is not a proper type of food. It had 3 articles Honey, Candy, and Chocolate. I moved honey to animal products, and candy and chocolate to food types, that's where biscuit and cake are for example. Sweet things was an odd section, you could just as easily include, or not, several more articles we have that are sweet things, like ice cream, cake, biscuit, sugar, fruit preserve etc. No articles where added or removed so I did it without opening vote, hope no one disagrees. Carlwev 16:35, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
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Pretty important, no? And not just from an anatomical perspective – facial appearance, recognition and expressions need some sort of coverage on the list as well.
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As stated in the conversation below: "It's odd to call that event "not well known". I've never heard of it under that name, but it is definitely a well-known happening that should probably be vital as well. I've heard plenty about the biologically-induced appearance of oxygen in the atosphere, but I never actually read about it. Having a good description of it on Wikipedia should definitely be vital. I'll suggest it right away."
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These are Ordovician–Silurian extinction events, Late Devonian extinction, Permian–Triassic extinction event (already in), Triassic–Jurassic extinction event and Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event (already in). The three articles that aren't already in are still incredibly major events in the big history of the Earth and life. They are grouped together in these articles for a reason, after all, and are all vital.
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I'm very surprised this is not included, they are of significant interest to scientists and to common readers too, for numerous reasons. We list many rock types or minerals, seams odd to leave this one out; many rock types we have, in my opinion, seam less vital than this such as SchistorGneiss, to pick on a few. The geology project rates meteorite as high importance, compared to many rocks/minerals we include which are only mid importance; Meteorite is also in more languages than many rocks/minerals we have. Carlwev 23:33, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Also, we are missing meteoroid too, I may open than to in astronomy, what are peoples thoughts on that? BTW, Meteorite is a rock on Earth which is of extraterrestrial origin, a meteoroid is an object in space smaller than an asteroid, and a meteor is a rock whilst burning through the atmosphere and the word redirects to meteoroid. (If meteoroids overlap with anything it would be asteroid, although they are not the same though, but since asteroid, comet, planet, natural satellite are all 1000 list articles I would have thought a few more space object types acceptable for the 10,000 list) Carlwev 23:33, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
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The Paris Métro isn't even all that notable among mass transit systems – for instance, there are six subway systems with more ridership that aren't on the list. I think the Pont du Gard is a much better example of a vital piece of engineering – it's the tallest aqueduct the Romans built, has survived intact for nearly two millennia, and has attracted and inspired visitors throughout its history.
And I would swap Tokyo Subway with Shinkansen. Gizza (t)(c) 01:37, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
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There are five examples of rapid transit systems and zero examples of high speed rail. This imbalance needs to be rectified. The Shinkansen is the most notable high speed rail network in the world. The Tokyo Subway was not the first of its kind (the London Underground was) nor does it even have the highest ridership in East Asia let alone the world (Beijing, Seoul and Shanghai all have busier rapid transit systems).
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As you can see, I've just opened a new slate of proposals to try to trim the remaining subsections of the list not already at quota. But for the History section, I just don't see how that's going to be possible: I can think of far more things worth adding than removing. So I propose we raise the quota for the History section by 25 articles to 675. To make room for that I think we should lower the quota for the Astronomy and "Basics & Measurement" sections of the Physical sciences to 215 and 85 respectively – we've done a lot of work on those sections and I don't think much needs to be added to either one.
I needed to check the current quotas and articles to see how different the the current and proposed quotas are and how many articles they currently have. I wrote them down so others wouldn't need to check too.
Basics and measurement: current quota 100, current actual 85, proposed quota 85.
Astronomy: current quota 225, current actual 209, proposed quota 215
History: current quota 650, current actual 664, proposed quota 675.
I don't always pay attention to quotas, but the quotas can be continually discussed and altered if we agree they need to be. At the moment, making astronomy quota 215 would mean it's still under by 6, and the new quota for measurement (with basics) means it would become spot on. This means we would need to remove nothing and still leave a tiny space for a few more astronomy articles but not much. Altering the history quota means we can add 11 more articles instead of needing to remove 14. In short I agree I can think of more missing things that seem to be vital to me from history compared to other areas, including astronomy and measurement. I think astronomy could have a few more, but this proposal still leaves a small amount of room which may be enough.
Also, I notice we have always chosen round(ish) numbers for quotas which kind of makes sense, I wonder if, as the list gets more complete, we will pick not so round numbers if we decide a certain section needs another 1 article but not another 5 or 10. How close are people trying to get to the quotas anyway? exact or just a rough guide with some leeway? The latter I would presume? Carlwev 16:08, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
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Sessue Hayakawa (早川 雪洲 Hayakawa Sesshū?, June 10, 1889 – November 23, 1973) was a Japanese Issei actor who starred in American, Japanese, French, German, and British films. Hayakawa was active at the outset of the American film industry. He was the first Asian actor to find stardom in the United States and Europe. He is the first Asian American as well as the first Japanese American movie star and the first Asian American leading man. His "broodingly handsome" good looks and typecasting as a sinister villain with sexual dominance made him a heartthrob among American women, and the first male sex symbol of Hollywood, several years in advance of Rudolph Valentino.--Skr15081997 (talk) 10:47, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
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Mehmood Ali (Hindi: महमूद अली; Urdu: محمود علی; 29 September 1932 – 23 July 2004), popularly known simply as Mehmood, was an Indian actor, singer, director and producer best known for playing comic roles in Hindi films. During his career of more than four decades, he worked in over 300 Hindi films.
A very popular figure in India, he was nominated for the Filmfare Best Comedian Award several times and won it 4 times.--Skr15081997 (talk) 13:51, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Mehmood is definitely right up there with Johnny Walker as the two leading Indian comedians. Tun Tun would be close and is clearly India's most vital female comedian and her addition would improve the diversity of the list in two aspects but to be honest she is not quite at the level of Mehmood and Johnny Walker. Note that during the peak of Johnny Walker's career, there were no Filmfare Best Comedian Awards given out, making it hard to compare the the two on that basis. We can look at sources from critics to decide between them.
I doubt you would find consensus for more than one comedian from India as the trend lately on this page has been to reduce the number of overall comedians. Gizza (t)(c) 12:45, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
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Devika Rani Chaudhuri, usually known as Devika Rani (30 March 1908 – 9 March 1994), was an actress in Indian films who was active during the 1930s and 1940s. Widely acknowledged as the first lady of Indian cinema, Devika Rani had a successful film career that spanned 10 years. Her awards include thePadmashri (1958), Dadasaheb Phalke Award (1970) and the Soviet Land Nehru Award (1990). It's strange that no Indian actress has been included in the VA list.--Skr15081997 (talk) 13:58, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Devika Rani seems to be at a similar level to K.L. Saigal, who was the first genuine male film star of India but not necessarily most successful nor most acclaimed and therefore not most vital. I'm not sure Devika Rani would be the first choice for Indian actresses when there is the likes of Nargis, Madhubala, Meena Kumari, Nutan, Madhuri Dixit, Sridevi and Kajol to contend with. Gizza (t)(c) 12:33, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
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A utopian socialist who later influenced a diverse array of revolutionary thinkers and writers. Some of his social and moral views, held to be radical in his lifetime, have become mainstream thinking in modern society.
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A Welsh social reformer and one of the founders of utopian socialism and the cooperative movement. In 1824, Owen travelled to America to invest the bulk of his fortune in an experimental 1,000-member colony on the banks of Indiana's Wabash River, called New Harmony. New Harmony was to be a utopian, or ideal/perfect, society.
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A French politician and historian whose politicl and social ideas greatly contributed to the development of socialism in France.
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Henry Parkes (27 May 1815 – 27 April 1896) was an Australian politician regarded as the father of the Australian Federation and the most important of the Australian Founding Fathers, also described by The Times as "the most commanding figure in Australian politics"
For an earlier related discussion on Australian political figures, see the proposal to add Gough Whitlam. It was unsuccessful though a few other Australian PMs were suggested, notably John Curtin.
Speaking for myself, as significant as the Australian Federation was in hindsight, at the time it was not revolutionary. Six British colonies essentially merged into one British colony. The devolution of power came much later. And there were other figures associated with the Federation movement such as Edmund Barton. If we are to have an Australian political figure I still prefer John Curtin for reasons stated by Malerisch in the archives or Lachlan Macquarie since he was pivotal in transforming the convict island hellhole into a functioning society to which European free settlers readily migrated. Many other European colonies around the world was abandoned soon after colonisation and the indigenous or another group become the dominant culture. A major reason why this didn't happen in Australia was Macquarie. But as you can see from the archived discussion, there is some disagreement on whether we should have any Australian political figures at all. As for other leaders from Oceania, we could have George Tupou IorKamehameha I who were among the most notable Polynesian kings in history. Gizza (t)(c) 10:17, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
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I don't know where he/her would fit on the list (Rebel?) but him/she should be on here. One of the few people who has kept the public interest for a centenary, has a group of people dedicated to his/her study "Ripperology". A good peek into the mind of a evil being and i was surprised when i went through the archives that when the criminal section was removed there was no discussion to his/her individual removal, certainly more notable then Capone, the only downside is he/her has no section to go into but his/her infamy and the continual study of him/her certainly qualify him/her into this list. I'd say swap him for this relatively recent architect.
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We don't list writer, author, artist, composer, film directororscreenwriter; I don't see what makes playwrights exceptional among these.
Thinking out loud, do we need play (theatre)oracting? There's may be a reason we don't? Carlwev 17:51, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
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In my opinion since not all ethnic cleansings are genocides (some do not involve killing) and it is a concept no less crucial than genocide (which belongs to the list), this article should be added to the Level 4 list.
If this is successful, it should be placed somewhere under "Society" not "Law". Ethnic cleansing itself is not regarded as a crime even by the International Criminal Court. Gizza (t)(c) 07:19, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
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I don't think we need to list classes of sensors, be they photodetectors, chemosensors, biosensors, etc. I suggest replacing that article with the CCD, which is the semiconductor device that made digital imaging practical for the first time and is still employed in a variety of applications ranging from endoscopy to the Hubble space telescope.
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Both are vital concepts in historiography, however they do not belong to the list.
Is collective memory any more vital than archival research? It doesn't seem to be. It's just some niche theory. Periodization is better though I wonder if historiography needs to be expanded. Note that historiography is introduced to the list at this level (Level 4). Sometimes subtopics are added to the list at the same level as the main topic if there is a compelling reason. I can't see a compelling reason in this case at the moment. Gizza (t)(c) 09:26, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
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The tune's well-known, but otherwise this is a work of virtually no musical significance – Mozart wrote it for the purposes of light entertainment. Calling this vital is like calling Für EliseorPachelbel's Canon or Wagner's Bridal Chorus or the Nokia ringtone vital.
No, pbp, there really isn't. Try reading a history of Western music – none of these works have had any discernible influence on its development. To list any of these instead of the Mozart piano concertosorBeethoven's Eroica Symphony or Wagner's Parsifal would be ridiculous. Cobblet (talk) 15:12, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
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Aside of air time, what significance does this piece of music have? It's not considered one of the 10-15 greatest pieces of pop music. Not sure it's particularly influential either. pbp 20:30, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
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We have neither this nor lymph nor lymph node.
Seems quite vital. Following print encyclopedias, I own a few biology encyclopedias and textbooks, old and new big and small, this appears in most of them, often with a page/article of it's own. Carlwev 07:34, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
As essential a topic as bone or muscle.
Important in the human body, and the fact some fish, such as sharks have an entire boneless cartilage skeleton makes it seem more vital. Carlwev 08:25, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
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John Silas "Jack" Reed was an American journalist, poet, and socialist activist, best remembered for his first-hand account of the Bolshevik Revolution, Ten Days That Shook the World.
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We have Peter Kropotkin, but not Bakunin, who was a highly influential ideologue in Europe, which is quite strange.
Bakunin is indeed a prominent anarchist but anarchism itself has not been as prominent as socialism, communism, capitalism, liberalism, conservatism, or even fascism. I agree that Bakunin is better than Kropotkin. And I don't know enough about utopian socialism to form a view on how many utopian socialists from the proposals below we need on this list. Gizza (t)(c) 12:22, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
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A French political and economic theorist and businessperson whose thought played a substantial role in influencing politics, economics, sociology, and the philosophy of science.
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AnAmerican philosopher, psychologist, and educational reformer whose ideas have been influential in education and social reform. Dewey is one of the primary figures associated with the philosophy of pragmatism and is considered one of the founders of functional psychology. A well-known public intellectual, he was also a major voice of progressive education and liberalism. Although Dewey is known best for his publications about education, he also wrote about many other topics, including epistemology, metaphysics, aesthetics, art, logic, social theory, and ethics.
The overriding theme of Dewey's works was his profound belief in democracy, be it in politics, education or communication and journalism. As Dewey himself stated in 1888, while still at the University of Michigan, "Democracy and the one, ultimate, ethical ideal of humanity are to my mind synonymous."
Known for his advocacy of democracy, Dewey considered two fundamental elements—schools and civil society—to be major topics needing attention and reconstruction to encourage experimental intelligence and plurality. Dewey asserted that complete democracy was to be obtained not just by extending voting rights but also by ensuring that there exists a fully formed public opinion, accomplished by communication among citizens, experts, and politicians, with the latter being accountable for the policies they adopt.
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A historian who studies history of the Arabs, history of Islam, Ottoman Empire and the Republic of Turkey. He is also a public intellectual who influences the educated public a lot. His advice has been frequently sought by policymakers, including the Bush administration.
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A cultural critic who is best known for the 1978 book Orientalism. In it, he analyses the cultural representations that are the basis of Orientalism, a term he redefined to refer to the West's patronizing perceptions and depictions of Middle Eastern, Asian and North African societies—"the East". He contended that Orientalist scholarship was, and remains, inextricably tied to the imperialist societies that produced it, which makes much of the work inherently political, servile to power, and thus intellectually suspect. His book was quite influential in the humanities, but also quite controversial.
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With his endless output of papers, articles, speeches and presentations, and numerous books translated into many languages, Toynbee was perhaps the world’s most read and discussed scholar in the 1940s and 1950s. Yet Toynbee's work lost favor among both the general public and scholars by the 1960s, due to the religious and spiritual outlook that permeates the largest part of his work. His work has been seldom read or cited in recent decades....examined the rise and fall of 26 civilizations in the course of human history, and he concluded that they rose by responding successfully to challenges under the leadership of creative minorities composed of elite leaders.
An English historian, diplomat, journalist and international relations theorist, and an opponent of empiricism within historiography.
Carr was best known for his 14-volume history of the Soviet Union, in which he provided an account of Soviet history from 1917-29, for his writings on international relations, particularly The Twenty Years' Crisis, and for his book What Is History?, in which he laid out historiographical principles rejecting traditional historical methods and practices.
Educated at the Merchant Taylors' School, London, and at Trinity College, Cambridge, Carr began his career as a diplomat in 1916; three years later, he participated at the Paris Peace Conference as a member of the British delegation. Becoming increasingly preoccupied with the study of international relations and of the Soviet Union, he resigned from the Foreign Office in 1936 to begin an academic career. From 1941 to 1946, Carr worked as an assistant editor at The Times, where he was noted for his leaders (editorials) urging a socialist system and an Anglo-Soviet alliance as the basis of a post-war order. Afterwards, Carr worked on a massive 14-volume work on Soviet history entitled A History of Soviet Russia, a project that he was still engaged on at the time of his death in 1982. In 1961, he delivered the G. M. Trevelyan lectures at the University of Cambridge that became the basis of his book, What Is History? Moving increasingly towards the left throughout his career, Carr saw his role as the theorist who would work out the basis of a new international order.
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There were two groups of scientists who found evidence for the accelerating universe. If we don't list Brian SchmidtorAdam Riess, the people who shared the Nobel Prize with Perlmutter, I don't see why we should list Perlmutter in the first place. Besides, this achievement is less significant than other modern discoveries, such as that of cosmic microwave background radiation which was key evidence for the Big Bang; we don't list Robert Woodrow WilsonorArno Allan Penzias. Historical figures like Hipparchus, Abd al-Rahman al-Sufi and William Herschel are also clearly more vital than Perlmutter.
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Now that the history quota has gone up, we can add missing articles on well-known topics that will give globalize that history section. As a comparison, the Sri Lankan Civil War is far more vital than the listed Revolution of 1905. FYI there are around 20 other articles on modern Russian history. Modern Russia is very well represented though I'm just proposing this as a straight addition at the moment due to quota. Gizza (t)(c) 02:06, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
The history of South Asia remains underrepresented. For example, I plan to nominate Gurjara-Pratihara, Rashtrakuta dynasty, Chalukya dynasty and Pala Empire to improve our coverage of medieval Indian history which is woeful compared to our coverage of any other part of Asia at the time. Cobblet (talk) 02:49, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
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The Aztecs and Inca have one historical city each but the Maya have none. Adding Chichen Itza will give each major New World civilization one historical city (I chose Chichen Itza because its page views dwarf Tikal and Copán).
Great Zimbabwe is the most famous historical city of Southern Africa, a region poorly represented on the list.
Oppose Chichen Itza – User:Maunus has previously pointed out that better choices exist in Mexico, and I think Tikal in Guatemala is also more historically and architecturally significant. Chichen Itza gets a disproportionate amount of attention because it's only two hours away from Cancun and has been subject of a private marketing campaign. Cobblet (talk) 03:42, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
Some regions seem to be poorly represented in historical cities because these cities are still inhabited and haven't become archeological sites (Rome, Athens, Luoyang and Patna to name a few). Still we could add Delphi to boost coverage of Europe. Gizza (t)(c) 03:02, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
I am close to supporting these two (Great Zimbabwe and Tikal). I would be close to supporting all those mention above, except Eritou culture. I particularly like, and have been thinking of Çatalhöyük for a loooong time, although I am slightly biased, as it's a personal favourite of mine. There are many interesting sites especially in the Ancient Mediterranean and Near East, such as Jericho and Byblos off the top of my head. Carlwev 20:06, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
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Per above discussion.
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A German language Bible translation from Hebrew and ancient Greek by Martin Luther.
Just a reminder; Luther Bible was removed August 2014, vote was five to none, see here Carlwev 14:52, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
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Not a particularly significant art movement, and the presence of optical illusion on the list means we can probably afford to do without it.
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Not sure why this is listed when most of the painting schools of the 19th century (Nazarene movement, Düsseldorf school of painting, Barbizon school, Macchiaioli, Hudson River School, Peredvizhniki) aren't.
OK, fair enough. But stuff like Arts and Crafts movement, Bauhaus, Beat Generation, Fauvismormagic realism all have more page views and aren't listed either. Cobblet (talk) 02:05, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
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How about a swap for the Bayeux Tapestry?Cobblet (talk) 05:03, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
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Seems redundant with handicraft which is also listed. On a related note we don't list craftsmanorartisan but do list guild.
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Mentioned by User:Carlwev in a previous discussion.
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Ossian hasn't had the same degree of influence and staying power as the other fictional characters listed. Maybe adding an article on Irish mythologyorCeltic mythology (although we do list Celtic polytheism) would be a better choice.
Sinbad has come up before in discussion, no one's proposed it though. Also Medusa and Minotaur too, although Greek mythology is already well represented. Carlwev 18:11, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
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No doubt it is a crucial term in Christianity.
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The fact that it is the world's oldest national church guarantees its vitality.
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Since oil palm (originally nominated in Organisms) is a redirect and there's more than one palm species that produces oil, I nominate the oil itself, which is the most commonly produced type of vegetable oil in the world. Ranked #8010 for page views over the last 30 days, more than vegetable oil and cooking oil combined.
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No doubt they are all crucial.
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They are no less crucial than dialect, however they do not belong to the Level 4 List.
It is no less crucial than language death, yet the list still does not contain it.
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This classical language, no doubt should be in the list, since experts use it to reconstruct the Proto-Indo-European language, many ancient Greek, Persian, Hebrew, Syriac, and Latin manuscripts survive only in their Armenian translation, and Classical Armenian continues to be the liturgical language of the Armenian Apostolic Church and is often learned by Biblical, Intertestamental, and Patristic scholars dedicated to textual studies.
I think that, instead of opposing my proposal, you should propose that all proto-languages and two classical languages, Classical Arabic and Biblical Hebrew be added to the list.--RekishiEJ (talk) 10:06, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
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Hard to describe this, but a sentence is the basis of language. What makes a sentence, how to put one together, the word order etc, is the basis of what a language is, pretty much every language, if not at least most of them. It's rated high importance in the linguistics wikiproject, higher than some other articles, listed or proposed. Vital at the 10'000 level at least, I should think. In fact, I'm not doing it here, but a decent argument could probably be made for it place in the 1000 list too. Carlwev 15:36, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
Side note: I was looking at the linguistic wikiproject top importance articles for ideas, at least some of them seem like reasonable ideas. Category:Top-importance Linguistics articles. Etymology in particular interests me. Tone (linguistics) is another language article I'm thinking about too. Carlwev 15:36, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
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A definitely crucial article. The Linguistic WikiProject regard it a top-importance Linguistic articles.
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No doubt this article is crucial.
A crucial article in the field of linguistics.
These field are as vital as phonetics and phonology, yet they still do not belong to the list.
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We already list film festival and Cannes Film Festival which I think is enough. We need some good examples of cultural festivals outside of film and I think this is the best possible choice: World Expos have played a huge role in the globalization of science, technology and culture and the arts since the 19th century. They're nowadays an important vehicle for nation branding and they're also the model for modern trade shows.
I would prefer some film studios instead of actors, films, and film festivals but that's a whole other kettle of fish. Also more sport events instead of sportsman was on my mind, like Wimbledon instead of a tennis player? Agree with this though. also how about carnival? Carlwev 18:17, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
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Seems more relevant to the culture and history of alcohol than say cocktail which we have. Carlwev 19:24, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps you were thinking of Prohibition in the United States, the actual 1920's era which could be vital. This prohibition article is just a general, listy page of drinking laws in different countries of the world. And as a topic alcohol law is very, very low down the list.
Just to add, a related article like black market would be a useful addition to economics. There aren't really any articles currently listed that overlap with black market either. Gizza (t)(c) 05:54, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
I'd probably support black market. Illegal drug trade and organized crime which we have touch on the same area, but they are not identical and the overlap is probably not too much. Carlwev 16:04, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
Also....Just thinking out loud about alcohol topics in the 1000 list. Perhaps Alcoholism is not a 1000 article material? We have Addiction, Alcoholism, Beer, Wine. Why is the addiction of alcohol at the 1000 level, when even at the 10,000 level no other specific addiction is included apart from the Substance abuse and Substance dependence articles; is it just because there is a single word for it? We don't have Tobacco at the 1000 level, which I would think is more important than Soybean which is. We do have Smoking however, which may be considered the kind of equivalent to alcoholism. But Alcoholism is about "any drinking of alcohol that results in problems" not just drinking in general. Although we have Beer and Wine we also don't have Alcohol (about the organic compound) at the 1000 level nor Alcoholic beverage...Alcohol consumption, would be the equivalent to smoking but that just redirects to alcoholic beverage. Carlwev 11:07, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
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We list so many things related to cropland (farm, agronomy, crop, soil science, soil fertility, irrigation, fertilizer, tillage, meadow) that I'm not really sure we need an article on the physical feature itself – what's left to write about it? In contrast ranching is an important economic activity in many parts of the world but our coverage of it is basically non-existent.
I like the add more than the remove but I agree, field is something, that can seem important at first, but how much can you really write about it like you said, that's not included in crops, farm agriculture etc. Field does appear in many languages in Wikipedia, but all the ones I checked are, like ours, little more than stubs. Ranch is something that has crossed my mind before, probably from playing too many games that include them, but still, to me ranch seems better than field and is more vital for agriculture than several crops and fruits we still have. Carlwev 16:18, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
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Read the article and you will notice it is not as fundamental as related articles like occupational safety and health, ergonomics, code (law), real estate, mortgage and lease, none of which are listed. Gizza (t)(c) 03:20, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
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I suggest we remove all the transactinide elements beyond dubnium, i.e. seaborgium, bohrium, hassium, meitnerium, darmstadtium, roentgenium, copernicium, ununtrium, flerovium, ununpentium, livermorium, ununseptium and ununoctium. All of these artificially synthesized, non-naturally-occurring elements have half-lives of less than 15 minutes; even the rarest and least stable naturally occurring element francium has a half-life longer than that, as do the transactinides rutherfordium and dubnium (which I'm not suggesting we remove). So unless we find new isotopes of them that happen to be more stable, there is little chance of ever seeing practical applications for these elements. With the chemistry section over quota and many extremely important topics still missing (e.g. stoichiometry, stereochemistry), we simply don't have room to include all the known chemical elements, just like we don't include all the known subatomic particles or all the known organisms on Earth. The article on the transactinide elements should cover the general properties of these elements and the reasons why we keep trying to make new ones (island of stability).
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This article's about a particular type of weather map, and we don't list any other type of map (street map, relief map, etc.). We already list the meteorological features that are depicted on such a map (e.g. weather fronts, low-pressure areas, anticyclones, precipitation) and an article on the map itself doesn't seem vital to me – weather forecasting should cover what a reader needs to know about this topic.
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Emerald is vital; the general type of mineral is not. (Compare ruby and sapphire with corundum.)
What about a swap for jade?Cobblet (talk) 02:33, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
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This is a particular type of climate model. I think a less technical article like that might be vital, but this is probably too specialized.
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As interesting as geysers are, I don't think we can afford to list unusual types of springs when we don't even list the basic concept.
Undecided on geyser but think I want to keep it. Carlwev 18:25, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
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We already list lake and the study of freshwater in general, limnology. Pond seems like a rather trivial concept, while everyone ought to know what a drainage basin is.
I would prefer to keep pond. It is relevant to wildlife, ecosystem, agriculture, fish, culture/recreation, and some religions. It is guilty of being smaller than a lake, but I don't think it's trivial. Drainage basin is clearly vital to me. Carlwev 17:16, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
As some people are supporting half this thread, I would like to split this thread to make it clearer. Some votes followed by a comment mentioning one article but not the other are unclear to me whether the support is only for the article they mention or the whole swap. Carlwev 21:51, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
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Oil palm and rapeseed (also known as canola) are some of the most valuable cash crops around – they are the first and third most common sources of vegetable oil in the world. (Soybeans are second, sunflowers fourth; both are listed.) Sesame is the oldest oilseed crop and an essential component of many cuisines around the world.
I support these additions (of course, I want to see more plants listed), but want to point out that palm oil is a better developed article than Elaeis (the redirect target of oil palm). Palm oil receives far more page views as well (112k in the last 90 days vs. not quite 3k for Elaeis). And I don't know if it's worth considering adding vegetable oil to the Everyday Life section (cooking oil is already on the vital list there). Plantdrew (talk) 20:48, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
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We already list hazelnut which is the main use of the hazel. Maple is probably one of the most recognizable types of trees around the world; several species are notable for their wood or syrup.
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Another extremely well-known tree with lots of uses and cultural significance.
I'm a little leery of adding too many Northern hemisphere temperate trees, but willows are a better choice than some we already have (live oak could go).01:19, 1 July 2015 (UTC) Plantdrew (talk) 04:48, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
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Not a particularly notable variety of bean: the cowpea (e.g. black-eyed peas), pigeon pea and mung bean are more vital legumes not listed.
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Two very well-known spices that drove the development of the global spice trade during the Age of Discovery.
Who's is the unsigned vote? I checked, it is Plantdrew's [see here] Carlwev 13:42, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
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These are just two cultivars of the muskmelon which is already listed. We don't list individual cultivars of more important fruits like apples, oranges, pears or bananas.
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For the most part, the list of fruits reads like what you'd find at a Western grocery. Tamarind is used extensively throughout the tropical regions of the world. The Wikipedia page receives about as many views as the pages on cantaloupe and honeydew combined.
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We probably list too many types of turtles – there are about 10,000 species of reptiles and only about 400 of them are turtles. We already have a much more notable example of a terrapin in the red-eared slider; we don't need a second (sorry if you're from Maryland).
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There are about 60 species of side-necked turtles but over 1500 species of skinks (the largest family of reptiles of any kind except for Colubridae, which is a wastebin taxon for snakes); I think the latter's more vital.
There are families with even a greater number of species and distribution like jumping spiders. There is only one type of spider of the list (tarantula) and currently fives types of lizards. I think spiders and lizards are equally notable animals despite the difficulty in comparing them. But as Cobblet notes, there are less lizards than turtles and snakes (and dinosaurs). There are only seven articles on arachnids at the moment. Arthropod groups with similar notability like crustaceans and molluscs have ten articles each. Maybe my views are divergent from consensus but it seems arachnids could be better represented. Gizza (t)(c) 10:33, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
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An important group in the history of reptile evolution, they were the largest land animals of the Permian period (Dimetrodon is a famous example that we already list), and gave rise to mammals (the only extant synapsids).
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From what I can see, there are no articles dealing with the concept of biological hybrids nor is the most famous example listed. It is quite surprising that mule isn't listed when many obscure species like diving petrel and cebidae are in addition to nine breeds of horses. We need at least one of these articles though not sure which one.
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Basic parts of vertebrate anatomy. Somehow we have thorax but not these.
I'm curious as to whether people think neck is vital. There are potentially a lot of anatomy-related articles worth adding – I've got a list of fifty or so, but I'm only going to nominate the most obvious ones right now. (This is why we need to get rid of more organisms!) Cobblet (talk) 04:30, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Intestines and brain and other organs, seem more vital, but at the 10000 level these probably are to, definitely if thorax is in. Carlwev 07:21, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
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The two basic divisions of the nervous system, which is so important that it really deserves better coverage. They're surely more notable components than the five different sensory systems we list in addition to the senses they're associated with.
I'd like to add subdivisions of each as well, e.g. autonomic nervous system (covering both sympathetic and parasympathetic nerves), somatic nervous system (AKA voluntary nerves) and enteric nervous system to cover the peripheral nervous system, and parts of the brain (potentially a lot to choose from, but cerebrum, cerebral cortex, brainstem and cerebellum at the very least). Most of these are among Wikiproject Anatomy's most-viewed pages. Cobblet (talk) 04:30, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
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We just added hand so we should probably add these too. And like hand, these articles mostly deal with the anatomical feature in humans and don't really say much about these features in other primates, so I've put the nomination here with the intention of listing them under the "human anatomy" section.
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