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176955373
story
Posted
by
msmash
07, 2025 @11:00AM
from the tussle-continues dept.
President Donald Trump signaled a potential diplomatic opening amid his aggressive tariff strategy on Monday, threatening China with an additional 50% tariff while simultaneously offering other nations a path to negotiate lower trade barriers.
The ultimatum to Beijing demands China withdraw a 34% increase by April 8, 2025, or face supplementary tariffs effective April 9, which would push total levies on Chinese goods to 104% or higher. Trump has already imposed a 20% tariff over fentanyl concerns and a 34% tariff related to trade issues. "Negotiations with other countries, which have requested meetings, will begin taking place immediately," Trump wrote on social media, marking a shift from the administration's previously unyielding stance.
Related Links
UK Effort To Keep Apple Encryption Fight Secret Is Blocked
Apple Rushes Shipments From India To Dodge Tariffs
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
byzenlessyank ( 748553 ) writes:
Make America democratic again.
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byMr. Dollar Ton ( 5495648 ) writes:
Deport them where?
Why should any one country want to admit that scum?
They are yours, deal with them yourselves.
bysmooth wombat ( 796938 ) writes:
Why should any one country want to admit that scum?
Fine. We'll send them to Antarctica. It's not a country so it can't complain.
byMr. Dollar Ton ( 5495648 ) writes:
Yeah, dump that shit on the penguins. And they even put on a suit and said "thank you".
byOwP_Fabricated ( 717195 ) writes:
There are agreements to not dump waste in the arctics.
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bynightflameauto ( 6607976 ) writes:
Deport them where?
Mars. They constant stream of hot air flowing out their mouths could even kickstart the terraforming process.
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byWaffleMonster ( 969671 ) writes:
Deport them where?
CECOT
bypesho ( 843750 ) writes:
San Salvador is accepting any random people we send there without due process.
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byMachineShedFred ( 621896 ) writes:
Apparently El Salvador will take anyone at all, no questions asked, with a sufficient monetary contribution. They'll even give you a place to (forcibly) stay with bunk beds and a free haircut!
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byArchieBunker ( 132337 ) writes:
Can we start a GoFundMe for Musk and Trump?
byArchieBunker ( 132337 ) writes:
Ah yes blame the victim.
byxevioso ( 598654 ) writes:
And, literally, "Charles Manson's rotting corpse" would be better than what we have now. Literally.
If you don't vote for the lesser of two evils, you get the greater evil, and that is what we got.
Do you think Harris would start trade war and wipe out billiuons of dollars of people's hard-earned wealth?
I looked at my 401K today, and it was down about 25% than when I last looked at it. He's *literally* costing people money, and Charles Manson's rotting corpse would not be doing that. Literally.
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byMr. Dollar Ton ( 5495648 ) writes:
What "messages"? I'm against illegal immigration.
bychispito ( 1870390 ) writes:
"You fool! Don't hurt their feelings or they'll vote for the insurrectionist felon who pledged to ruin the economy!"
Eight years of messages like that from the left is exactly why we have Trump 2.0.
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bychispito ( 1870390 ) writes:
Way to welcome Republicans back into the fold.
I was a Republican. I was sympathetic to this "Democrats made us" schtick. Then the Republicans doubled down after the insurrection. They all need to be run out on a rail and replaced by people who believe what they say they do.
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byMobileTatsu-NJG ( 946591 ) writes:
Eight years of messages like that from the left is exactly why we have Trump 2.0.
You're sentient, your'e intelligent, and no-one put a gun to your head at the ballot box. Own your shit.
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bygoldspider ( 445116 ) writes:
Quoting Hitler at campaign rallies undoubtedly energized the base.
byMr. Dollar Ton ( 5495648 ) writes:
What trump is doing isn't "aggressive strategy", or any strategy whatsoever, it is a demonstration of how harmful aggressive ignorance compounded by aggressive stupidity, multiplied by aggressive lack of checks and balances and greed can be.
Even trump's main sponsor, the south african nazi, is getting desperate.
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bygaryisabusyguy ( 732330 ) writes:
I have to ask myself, if Tariffs are replacing Income Taxes, and other countries are negotiating to lower Tariffs, does that mean that the Trump Income Tax cuts are off the table?
bycommodore73 ( 967172 ) writes:
Do you really believe that there was ever any real intention to reduce taxes on the working class? Tariffs are basically an internal tax that most affects the working class. So, the income tax cuts for billionaires may go through, but that "anyone making less than $150K annually won't pay federal [income] taxes" was never a real policy goal.
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bygaryisabusyguy ( 732330 ) writes:
Since this is the case, why aren't people screaming this from the rooftops, "TRUMP REGRESSIVE TAXES WILL DESTROY THE MIDDLE CLASS"
byPascoea ( 968200 ) writes:
I mean, people kinda are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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bycommodore73 ( 967172 ) writes:
I don't have evidence, but I have a lot of theories about why there is not more revolt in the USA. I would summarize that the American people in general really aren't very informed, educated, or engaged with reality, and that this is intentional.
bycommodore73 ( 967172 ) writes:
In general I agree with you. Both parties primarily represent wealthy interests, but no two quantities are ever truly equal: one must favor wealth more than the other, and current shifts indicate which. I consider myself to be an independent that evaluates individuals and their actions, and hence and I have very little respect for anyone in either party. I have always been fiscally conservative and socially progressive, so neither party has ever represented me (neither is fiscally conservative; progression
bycaseih ( 160668 ) writes:
It's because Trump has been consistently lying and saying the exporting countries pay the tariffs. Somehow the idea that tariffs are paid by American consumers is met, even here on slashdot, with incredulity.
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byswillden ( 191260 ) writes:
It's because Trump has been consistently lying and saying the exporting countries pay the tariffs. Somehow the idea that tariffs are paid by American consumers is met, even here on slashdot, with incredulity.
I just read an article about an upstate New York dairy farmer who figured it out. He buys his feed grain from farmers in Ontario, and his shipment just arrived with a much higher than expected bill. He didn't want to accept it because he has a prior contract that specifies the price. If the supplier had equipment problems, higher fuel prices, etc., they still have to deliver at the contracted price. But the tariffs apply on top of the contracted price, and the buyer pays every penny of them.
Unfortunately for this farmer, he can't raise his prices because he's contractually obligated to sell for the price negotiated by the co-op. So he just has to eat the loss.
At least a dairy farmer always has the option of eating his cows, so he's pretty well buffered against starvation.
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bypesho ( 843750 ) writes:
Too bad I have no mod points. You deserve score of 6 for this post.
bydfghjk ( 711126 ) writes:
It's a strategy, it's a mob shakedown on a global scale. He's a middle school bully doing exactly what a middle school bully would do. He thinks he can take the lunch money from every person in the world, that's all it is. Grovel at his feet, empty your pockets. The standard middle school response, punch him in the nose, is going to work too, it's just the damage is going to be greater than a prepubescent ego.
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byAmiMoJo ( 196126 ) writes:
And that's why so many countries are trying to join big trading blocs and increase the clout with which they can negotiate. You don't appease bullies, you stand up to them, and being part of something like the EU or even ASEAN is important.
Yes I'm still bitter about Brexit.
byMr. Dollar Ton ( 5495648 ) writes:
Love the comeback from the smartypants, who lost 15% of their retirement money over two weeks, but is still bravely manning the gun hole for the guy who stole it from him.
bycayenne8 ( 626475 ) writes:
Love the comeback from the smartypants, who lost 15% of their retirement money over two weeks
I like many...are buying the dip....
Markets go up and down....shit happens.
bydfghjk ( 711126 ) writes:
As long as other people's lives are being destroyed, even better for you, huh?
Nothing is produced in the stock market, every dollar made is a dollar taken out of someone else's pocket. Your comment needs to be appreciated in that context. But you've always bragged about your own selfishness, nothing new.
byMr. Dollar Ton ( 5495648 ) writes:
The market will start bouncing back
Yeah, wait for it like it's 1929.
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bybelthize ( 990217 ) writes:
No it didn't. Not sure what you're looking at but the DOW didn't hit it's pre-October 1929 peak until 1954, over 25 years later. The DOW reached it's bottom in 1932, it didn't *start* to recover till 1933 and it took nearly 20 years to recover to it's 1928 high.
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byRoger W Moore ( 538166 ) writes:
The market will start bouncing back as soon as deals with individual countries are being made.
IF deals with individual countries are made. I don't think you get how angry the rest of the world is with the US right now. In the short term, yes I am sure most countries will look for a temporary arrangement to limit the damage to their economies but longer term most countries are looking to promote trade elsewhere, away from the US because Trumps "deals" are frequently not worth the paper they are written on.
For example, in his last term Trump renegotiated NAFTA with Canada and Mexico to give us the
byRoger W Moore ( 538166 ) writes:
The White house just rejected 0% tariff from Vietnam.
This is because Trump does not understand tariffs at all. He keeps saying that non-US people pay them, which is rubbish - US customers of foreign companies pay them when they import things. The calculations he uses for his "reciprocal tariffs" claim a trade deficit is a tariff on US goods, which it is not, and he uses this to set his reciprocal tariff except for countries that have balanced trade with the US where he put on a 10% minimum tariff "just because".
Since he is claiming that a trade deficit is
byukoda ( 537183 ) writes:
Few will blacklist the USA but many will put it low on their list of places to trade with because the USA is now seen as unstable and unreliable. Target your exports at China and the EU first, then chase the smaller stable markets. Only consider the USA when you have the surplus resources need to play their games.
I think a lot of people in the USA over estimate the size and power of the USA market vs the reset of the world. A large market yes, but they are not as big player as they think they are.
byfahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) writes:
What trump is doing isn't "aggressive strategy", or any strategy whatsoever, it is a demonstration of how harmful aggressive ignorance compounded by aggressive stupidity, multiplied by aggressive lack of checks and balances and greed can be. Even trump's main sponsor, the south african nazi, is getting desperate.
LOL - The psychological projection displayed by your post is massive. "aggressive ignorance compounded by aggressive stupidity", OMG, what perfect self identification you offer.
To be fair, most economists would probably agree with the original sentiment. For example, Trump's stated goal is to move manufacturing back to America. That will take time and money and no one is going to do that if the tariffs can be negotiated or removed on a whim and foreign good become inexpensive and plentiful again. He's even bumping tariffs on things like coffee, vanilla and bananas which the U.S. literally can't ever grow domestically, in amounts to satisfy local demand anyway.
The only apparent strategy is to tariff literally every country, including uninhabited islands (okay, they have penguins), so smaller ones, who we don't really trade that much with anyway, can come to the table and Trump can claim massive "wins" while the larger countries, with whom we with trade a lot, retaliate.
Trade imbalances aren't (necessarily) bad and requiring "balanced trade" isn't (necessarily) practical. For example, the administration complained that the U.S. can't sell rice to the Asian markets -- (to quote The Daily Show) well, duh, they mastered growing rice 10,000 years ago. Now maybe if it's the "a-Roni" variety ... Other countries can't help it if they have things the U.S. wants but the U.S. doesn't have anything they want.
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byukoda ( 537183 ) writes:
Would you trust someone who sucker punched you twice ever again? Ever?
Yes, from the outside looking in it is not good. The first trump term was a shock, but we assumed it was a one off thing. But when he got in a second term we are now thinking it is not just one bad actor, trump, that is the problem, but the views of the average person there. Putting aside that Republicans are busy working out how to ensure the next election out come is not determined by voters, the trust is lost anyway.
It is sad to lose a long term ally but life goes on. Existing alliances will stren
bydryeo ( 100693 ) writes:
Tried that, CUSMA, which Trump1 declared the greatest deal ever, then Trump2 declared it an agreement created by an idiot.
Why is any country going to trust America to keep its word?
byMachineShedFred ( 621896 ) writes:
So your only response to the most predictable outcome of this economic policy - predicted by firms on Wall Street months ago as well as Nobel Prize winning economists - is "no u"?
Are you limbering up before reaching for this kind of stupidity? Because I wouldn't want you to pull a hamstring.
bydrnb ( 2434720 ) writes:
So your only response to the most predictable outcome of this economic policy ...
Apparently you did not read the post I responded to
predicted by firms on Wall Street months ago as well as Nobel Prize winning economists
Wall Street is not a reliable source of info, they have a vast stake, a vast investment in the status quo. The Nobel Prize winning economists, are largely being misrepresented. Global protectionists tariffs are being conflated with specifically targeted retaliatory tariffs. Two very different things. And some economists are political. You do realize you are engaging in an appeal to authority fallacy. There is nothing wrong with challenging an authority and
bydfghjk ( 711126 ) writes:
"Global protectionists tariffs are being conflated with specifically targeted retaliatory tariffs."
And who's doing that? There are no US-imposed "retaliatory tariffs", the US is the instigator here. Yet, Trump is now calling all his tariffs "retaliatory", sorry this "conflation", laughable as it is to call it that, is coming from within your house.
Trump tariffs are neither "protectionist" nor "retaliatory". Those words describe the "why", but the "why" of Trump's tariffs is bullying. Trump doesn't even
byukoda ( 537183 ) writes:
Trump literally prepared a country by country list of pre-existing tariffs and other economic barriers. Assigned an economic cost tot those, and individually applied tariffs based on such calculations.
Argue over the formula he used to value non-tariff barriers all you want, but it laughable to say he moved first.
You are blatantly overlooking trump's idea that a trade imbalance is an economic barrier. If you can't agree that a trade imbalance is not an economic barrier then a rational discussion on how to have fair trade is not possible.
New Zealand has an average tariff on USA imports of less than 2% but the USA imports 20% more of our goods that we import of your. So you have assessed us as having a 20% tariff on imports from the USA. How are we meant to fix that? Buy 20% more stuff from the USA that we don'
byLavandera ( 7308312 ) writes:
My bet is on China..
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byfahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) writes:
My bet is on China..
Also, China (and others) can simply move to getting things from other countries. For example, as a result of the first Trump administration tariffs China switched to importing more soybeans from Brazil -- now the largest producer of soybeans (40%) followed by the U.S. (28%). Prior to the Trump trade wars, 54% of U.S. soybeans went to China and with the trade war U.S. agricultural products will be priced out of the China market.
Production - Soybeans [usda.gov]
China strikes back at Trump with own tariffs, export curbs [reuters.com]
"With 34% tariff it will not be possible for U.S. agricultural products to enter China. It is an opportunity for other exporters like Brazil and Australia to increase their market share in China," said Ole Houe, director of advisory services at IKON Commodities in Sydney.
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bycayenne8 ( 626475 ) writes:
The trouble is...china is almost fully dependent upon exports, and no one currently imports as much from china as the US.
Even combining the rest of the world, if that were possible, pretty much could not save china.
Without the US, if it came to that...china would pretty much lock up and halt.
byBishopBerkeley ( 734647 ) writes:
Chinese products are so cheap that the tariffs will not reduce American appetite for them. Turning Americans off to Chinese products will take about a 500% tariff. In the short term, Americans will simply by less. Long term, they will pay the 500% tariff because this tariff level is not enough to induce American manufacturers to compete with the Chinese on low margin products. No one can compete with China on cost.
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byWaffleMonster ( 969671 ) writes:
As an American I pray the world imposes next level retaliatory tariffs and even sanctions on our asses. Don't "negotiate", coordinate. Be at least twice as petulant as the orange one in your response.
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byArchieBunker ( 132337 ) writes:
People in the cult will still blame something else. Wait until social security payments start being interrupted and then you'll hear how it's totally necessary in order to own the libs.
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byMachineShedFred ( 621896 ) writes:
Already started. The gaslighting about how horrible Biden's economic recovery is started about 20 seconds after these ridiculous tariffs were announced.
Never mind that every single metric showed it was the best post-pandemic economic recovery of any country. Nope, don't believe your lying eyes.
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byfahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) writes:
As an American I pray the world imposes next level retaliatory tariffs and even sanctions on our asses. Don't "negotiate", coordinate. Be at least twice as petulant as the orange one in your response.
I actually agree. All the other countries in the world could trade amongst themselves w/o the U.S. and be just fine. Trump wants the U.S. to be an manufacturing island, so be it. Good luck to us producing coffee, vanilla, bananas, sugar, aluminum, rare-Earth metals ... while the World misses our -- hmm... ???
byswillden ( 191260 ) writes:
As an American I pray the world imposes next level retaliatory tariffs and even sanctions on our asses. Don't "negotiate", coordinate. Be at least twice as petulant as the orange one in your response.
I actually agree. All the other countries in the world could trade amongst themselves w/o the U.S. and be just fine. Trump wants the U.S. to be an manufacturing island, so be it. Good luck to us producing coffee, vanilla, bananas, sugar, aluminum, rare-Earth metals
Also, steel, textiles, etc.
Of course, we can produce all of those things, but it will be really bad for our economy if we do.
An insightful economic essay I read recently pointed out that industrialization and the wealth that comes with it almost perfectly follows in each country the same path that it followed globally. Each country starts out with agriculture and then when they first step into industrialization they basically always start with textiles, the same place 18th-century industrialization beg
byfahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) writes:
As an American I pray the world imposes next level retaliatory tariffs and even sanctions on our asses. Don't "negotiate", coordinate. Be at least twice as petulant as the orange one in your response.
Saw this article after replying earlier... Trade Will Move on Without the United States [theatlantic.com]
The tariffs will destroy another pillar of American power and leave a vacuum for others to fill.
In fact, the administration’s tariff policy opens opportunities for Beijing, of all players, to portray itself as the more responsible global leader. In a meeting just days before Trump’s announcement, ministers from China, Japan, and South Korea issued a statement pledging to promote global trade.
Tariffs are not going to make other countries respect the United States. But they can make them move on without it.
byWaffleMonster ( 969671 ) writes:
Did you actually see the chart of tariffs that every other country had in place before any of this started? The world has already been waging war on us!
Sorry in advance for shouting... THE ***ENTIRE CHART IS A GODDAMN LIE***
It does not in fact display tariffs that every other country had in place. The figures were literally Trump taking trade imbalance of only physical goods as a percentage. The second column was dividing by two.
China plays the long game, and we finally caught on. It will hurt. But there is no painless way to fix the current mess we have allowed to take place over the past several decades.
Something is wrong when a $1 widget is cheaper to make in China and ship all the way across the world than making that same widget domestically. Things get really wrong when we buy that widget while they don't buy a single thing we make.
The US massively subsidies AG and energy sectors which is a source of endless protest from the rest of the world. China massively subsidies key industries which is a source of endless protest from us and many of our allies.
Out of 163 million jobs in the US less than 14 million are manufacturing. If you want to bring back manufacturing then federal and state governments will need to provide requisite infrastructure, subsidies and incentives to make that happen. You can't compete globally by walling yourself off from the rest of the world behind protectionist tariffs.
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byBaron_Yam ( 643147 ) writes:
So if I hold up a chart in front of you... you'll just believe it?
Wow.
When Trump isn't lying, he's either bullshitting or admitting he wants to do something stupid. Your gut reaction to seeing that chart should have been that you were being conned, not to accept it as proof of anything.
bygweihir ( 88907 ) writes:
Most people are really dumb. This person is an instance of that.
Trade imbalance comes from people not wanting to buy your studd and yo wanting to buy theirs. No connection to market manipulation and not "unfair" in any way. For example, nobody wants to buy cars from the US in Europe as there are no US cars that fit what europeans want. That causes a trade imbalance that is all made by the US car makers, nobody else.
byMachineShedFred ( 621896 ) writes:
So you actually believe that gaslighting nonsense the administration was showing? Those charts were showing absolute bullshit numbers that had nothing to do with tariffs until used as justification for levying tariffs. Some idiot literally did division of a trade deficit by imports to come up with a percentage [usatoday.com], and that's what they set the tariff to.
And then another pack of idiots (you) bought that bullshit.
Something is wrong when a $1 widget is cheaper to make in China and ship all the way across the world than making that same widget domestically.
So when are you starting your job in a factory making $1 widgets? Oh, I guess that's supposed to be "other people" doing that work for pennies, right?
Hey, maybe we found the "something" that is wrong?
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byBaron_Yam ( 643147 ) writes:
The (moronic) fascists are in the building. They're not going to leave peacefully, you've already seen them attempt violence once to get in there. Trump's next bigly move will be to authorize suppression of protests, then declare an emergency and you'll all get to experience the pleasure of a bag over your head and a deportation to a foreign prison that's probably going to quickly turn into a death camp because it's out of sight.
Do something about it.
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byPascoea ( 968200 ) writes:
Most people don't openly admit to being a fascist. How many times in history has the party that's suppressing protestors on the "good" side of the equation?
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byRazorSharp ( 1418697 ) writes:
Oh no! My tax rate goes up with my income!
You do not know what progressive means, do you?
bydfghjk ( 711126 ) writes:
Yep, definitely not fascism. "Bag and deport the protesters", such a normal, democratic concept.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" is now "I disapprove of what you say, so I'll cheer on as your life is destroyed and steal everything you own once you are gone". Is America Great Again?
bygweihir ( 88907 ) writes:
He seems to think this is a single real-estate like deal where you negotiate, close the deal and that is it. What he is actually doing is spooking a whole market and most players will now long-term look for alternatives to having to deal with him ever again.
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bynuckfuts ( 690967 ) writes:
Canada and Europe have a lot in common. Mostly irrelevancy.
You do realized that if not for France, you would have a real King right now instead of a wanna-be.
bytiananmen tank man ( 979067 ) writes:
Trump on Jan 21, 2025 pardoned Ross Ulbricht owner of the silk road , the illegal web site, selling drugs, so I doubt trump cares about fentanyl and overdoses.
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byFons_de_spons ( 1311177 ) writes:
Yup, playing a game of chicken at the highest levels. Yolo! Yeahaa!
byshanen ( 462549 ) writes:
Please don't feed the trolls or propagate their vacuous Subjects. And even forcing me to look at the AC waste of FP failed to clarify your context.
What I'd like to know about this topic is where is the money disappearing to. Whoever had the insider information must have made a really big pile. Just on the shorts, but there are all sorts of "cuter" FinTech games out there. Billions and trillions of dollars that never existed in reality have gone somewhere in three trading days? Someone has pocketed a bunch of it, but who? And what was the YOB's cut?
The bits that make me laugh hardest are the claims that the YOB says what he's really thinking. Let's see if anyone can get him to tell the truth about what he's thinking with his hidden crypto-coin accounts. Or in the form of another failed joke: The YOB demands "One million dollars!" while the inside trader giving him the million is pocketing billions.
I've decided against giving the YOB any more free publicity. #YOB = Yuge Orange Buffoon, though your mileage may differ for the B-Word. And the worst form of TDS is reserved for people who think the YOB is gambling with his OWN money. It's THEIR money he is flushing away.
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byshanen ( 462549 ) writes:
Please don't feed the trolls or propagate their vacuous Subjects. And even forcing me to look at the AC waste of FP failed to clarify your context.
What I'd like to know about this topic is where is the money disappearing to. Whoever had the insider information must have made a really big pile. Just on the shorts, but there are all sorts of "cuter" FinTech games out there. Billions and trillions of dollars that never existed in reality have gone somewhere in three trading days? Someone has pocketed a bunch of it, but who? And what was the YOB's cut?
The bits that make me laugh hardest are the claims that the YOB says what he's really thinking. Let's see if anyone can get him to tell the truth about what he's thinking with his hidden crypto-coin accounts. Or in the form of another failed joke: The YOB demands "One million dollars!" while the inside trader giving him the million is pocketing billions.
I've decided against giving the YOB any more free publicity. #YOB = Yuge Orange Buffoon, though your mileage may differ for the B-Word. And the worst form of TDS is reserved for people who think the YOB is gambling with his OWN money. It's THEIR money he is flushing away.
Off topic in a flying censor pig's eye, but thanks for confirming you have no actual response.
byFons_de_spons ( 1311177 ) writes:
Dude! We were venting and will continue to vent. It is what humans do, Cheers!
byWaffleMonster ( 969671 ) writes:
There's a thing in economics called the Marshal Lerner condition, and much of what Trump is doing economically appears to be aimed at manipulating this condition to the benefit of the US. It's an interesting read, from the game theory point of view.
The economy is a wildly complex system with multiple "elasticities" holding all the pieces together, so that if you put stress on one aspect, other aspects will strain or relax to compensate.
Just about nothing in the news media takes this into effect, all the descriptions I've seen have been justifications after the fact, and not actual economic analysis.
I agree the press has been extraordinarily intellectually lazy yet saying if you fuck with a system it reacts isn't by itself a terribly insightful or useful observation.
If you raise tariffs then importers will have to pay more, so they will charge more, and prices will go up. This is only true when everything else is held constant. In the current situation everything else isn't held constant, the system has numerous elasticities, and things will compensate.
For example, as of last night 50 countries had contacted the US to negotiate trade deals (EU being one of them, representing 27 countries for one contact). This is an elasticity that got pulled taught when the tariffs went into effect. This was the expected outcome, Trump said as much in the weeks leading up to the tariffs.
Is there a particular reason you can't negotiate whatever trade issues you have with countries BEFORE starting a global trade war?
Furthermore, everyone and their dog has said that the unfair tariff structure was a problem for many decades. For example, Nancy Pelosi in 1996 gave a lecture to congress about the problem, and we've let the problem get progressively worse over the past 30 years.
Given that there is some economic analysis that unfair trade is hurting the country, and given that high-level democrats used to believe that it was a problem as well, I'm of the opinion that the machinations of the current administration are a good thing.
Just because there are and will always be outstanding trade issues doesn't justify a grossly incompetent means of addressing them.
It appears that all of the resistance to fixing this problem is because it's Trump that's doing it, and that fixing the problem in this same manner would be OK if it were the Democrats doing it.
In addition to being an entirely partisan argument having nothing to do with the merits of the issue at hand it is also absurd on its face.
The 4D chess thing is getting old. Trump is simply incompetent, there is no deeper explanation or reason.
I'm in favor these actions for this one specific issue, and for right now. In three months time I'll reevaluate my opinion, but additionally I don't think it'll take even that long - I expect the whole thing will be over in a month and then the US will be in a much better position.
Why are you in favor of them? Where is the intellectual consideration you spoke of at the start of your post? Can you articulate a reasoned merit based argument supported by objective evidence for charging all countries a baseline 10% or the trade imbalance of physical goods (ignoring services) divided by two? If you can I would love to hear it.
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byangryman77 ( 6900384 ) writes:
My issue with anything the guy does is generally that he's not actually good at much except self-promotion and attacking his perceived enemies.
His performance in the private sector isn't particularly good. He has multiple bankruptcies under his belt, and the long-time joke that he would have made more money if he'd invested the seed money from his father in the S&P 500 became true because of his actions when he was elected previously.
His throwaway business strategy always involves losing other peo
byArchieBunker ( 132337 ) writes:
Trump managed to get China, South Korea, and Japan to all agree on something. That isn't an easy task. https://www.reuters.com/world/... [reuters.com]
bynewcastlejon ( 1483695 ) writes:
â¦an assertion Seoul called "somewhat exaggerated", while Tokyo said there was no such discussion.
bychispito ( 1870390 ) writes:
He's a uniter. Just ask everyone but Russia.
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bytaustin ( 171655 ) writes:
Winnie the Pooh doesn't even wear pants, you can see there's no genitalia.
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bysmooth wombat ( 796938 ) writes:
Biden only kept a select few tariffs in place. Prior to that Trump had to shell out over $60 billion in taxpayer dollars to protect the mass bankruptcies of farmers when China stopped by pork and soybeans from us.
China has already stopped buying pork from the U.S. How much more taxpayer money do you think will be spent this time when dozens of countries stop buying our products [politico.com]?
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bybussdriver ( 620565 ) writes:
China sourced alternatives and they never returned or were even interested in returning trade back to the USA except where necessary and they've spent all that time planning full independence from the USA in the long term. The damage never could be undone and now the world is going to at minimum plan for less dependency on the USA if they have any brains.
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byjacks smirking reven ( 909048 ) writes:
Yeah because Biden understood tariffs are a tool. "Let's take some general economic damage to protect an industry we find important"
Tariffs on Chinese autos are protectionism for domestic auto manufacturers. It's an economic hit as American's lose access to cheaper automobiles but the calculation is made that it's worth it to give our industry time to catch up. It's a cost/benefit.
Same with semi-conductors which carry not just an economic hit but are also a matter of national security.
This is all backed
bygaryisabusyguy ( 732330 ) writes:
Just to add a little "complication"
China has garnered manufacturing on a global scale due to the low cost of worker salaries, and huge investments in capital from their government
IF the US wants to match China on this, then they must do two things
1. Lower US manufacturing wages to match China
2. INCREASE income taxes to enable government ownership of US businesses
These things are NOT going to happen in Trump's presidential term, so he is effectively screwing US businesses and workers in a dive to the bottom
byfahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) writes:
China has garnered manufacturing on a global scale due to the low cost of worker salaries, and huge investments in capital from their government
IF the US wants to match China on this, then they must do two things:
1. Lower US manufacturing wages to match China
2. INCREASE income taxes to enable government ownership of US businesses
These things are NOT going to happen in Trump's presidential term, so he is effectively screwing US businesses and workers in a dive to the bottom...
And, not in any other presidential term. I'm pretty sure U.S. workers wouldn't really (want to) flock back to low-paying factory jobs, like when there was more manufacturing domestically. Trump wants a 1950s workforce, but we're past that, especially with technology improvements, etc...
bycommodore73 ( 967172 ) writes:
You clearly don't study economics.
byArchieBunker ( 132337 ) writes:
Maybe, just maybe, a retaliatory tariff is warranted when you truly face an abusive trading partner.
So why hasn't any president since Herbert Hoover fixed it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
bydrnb ( 2434720 ) writes:
Maybe, just maybe, a retaliatory tariff is warranted when you truly face an abusive trading partner.
So why hasn't any president since Herbert Hoover fixed it?
Politics. The US actually accepted unfair trade policies for political reasons. The tolerance of European tariffs on US goods goes back to WW2 reconstruction and getting Europe prosperous to prevent communist inroads in the west. With China it was part of an engagement policy the US hoped would liberalize China. The European strategy worked, the Chinese strategy did not. Neither is necessary, or politically wise, anymore.
bysmap77 ( 1022907 ) writes:
Getting hit by a car a 10 MPH isn't the same thing as getting hit by a car at 46 MPH.
Nice attempt at normalizing current activities by comparing them to 5 years ago, regardless if it is patently wrong.
bydrnb ( 2434720 ) writes:
Getting hit by a car a 10 MPH isn't the same thing as getting hit by a car at 46 MPH.
LOL. You do realize Trump's goal is that neither side gets hit by a car at all. Ie zero tariffs both directions.
byukoda ( 537183 ) writes:
You do realize Trump's goal is that neither side gets hit by a car at all. Ie zero tariffs both directions.
If that was really the case why did he put tariffs on so many places with no or very low tariffs?
byCyberax ( 705495 ) writes:
Note that those first term Chinese tariffs were kept by the Biden administration.
He also eased some of them. More importantly, by the midpoint of Biden's presidency, Chinese companies learned to work around the tariffs. Mostly by exporting through Vietnam or Malaysia.
bybussdriver ( 620565 ) writes:
Also, China plays the long game; they permanently setup their counter measures and Biden couldn't negotiate a reset no matter what he did. For example, US soybeans are permanently off the table for good. The instability of the USA makes great deals undesirable long term because if we are not rotating back in scumbags we are still a slow moving train-wreck and all Biden could do with 8 years is slow the speed; the momentum seems locked in.
The white pigs bitched too much and elected to leave the farmer and mo
byMachineShedFred ( 621896 ) writes:
So you're going to completely ignore how Trump collapsed the market for US soybeans last time around, and had to bail out farmers so they didn't all go bankrupt.
Well, now we're doing that with the whole economy. And you're cheering it on. Seems like you might be kind of an idiot.
byWaffleMonster ( 969671 ) writes:
Maybe, just maybe, a retaliatory tariff is warranted when you truly face an abusive trading partner. Sort of like the textbooks say. But people somehow forget when the name "Trump" is involved. If any other President confronted China and threatened retaliatory tariffs we'd see very different opinions. Well, actually, we did, no outrage under Biden.
Trump isn't making a legitimate case or effort. He isn't articulating a specific country or a specific unfair trade practice he seeks to remedy. He is imposing tariffs globally using an incoherent formula provably unmoored from reality using an incoherent justification.
He has publicly stated the reason for this is his desire to bring back manufacturing and literally return the country to the greatness of the glided age. The last time I checked the US is 4.2% of the global population. You can't seriously expect US companies to compete with the rest of the world while we intentionally place ourselves in a protectionist bubble cut off from up to 95.8% of our potential market. We tried this shit in the past and it proved to be ruinous predictable retaliatory tariffs and all.
Put politics aside and go re-read your Econ 101 textbooks. Free trade required fairness, retaliatory tariffs are a valid "free trade" tool against a specific abusive partner.
Your contention is the world is "a specific abusive partner"?
Its universal protectionist tariffs that are not "free trade". Two very different types of tariffs. Try not the let the name "Trump" distract you from this reality.
Universal tariffs complete with a 10% default are literally what Trump just imposed.
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byMachineShedFred ( 621896 ) writes:
Even though everything you said tracks logically, do not expect the economic suicide cult member morons to hear it. Some people don't learn the stove is hot until they've felt the searing pain themselves, no matter how many times you try to warn them.
bynewcastlejon ( 1483695 ) writes:
"Gilded" is quite apposite when talking about Agent Orange: worthless pot metal covered with the thinnest possible layer of gold.
bySt.Creed ( 853824 ) writes:
If that was the only thing that got hit, there wouldn't be this much outrage. But it's also hard to replace stuff that got hit. The stuff you literally cannot source in the USA because it requires an entire ecosystem.
bygaryisabusyguy ( 732330 ) writes:
>>It is still crazy to me that the left switched so hard and so fast on topics like Tesla and immigration.
Please explain this yourself...
People who are concerned about global warming STILL want electric cars, they have soured on Tesla because the company's owner, Elon Musk is promoting a president who denies global warming exists
In regards to Immigration, you will find that the demands to stop immigration are coming from far right groups like ALEC
These groups are intent on creating a new form of slavery, people who work under extreme conditions for little pay with no legal protection from abuse. This has been a far-right aim for decades with the disbanding of the Braceros program after the SCOTUS ruled those participants could join the farm workers union
As far as I can tell, the "left" hasn't changed their opinions at all in the past 60 years, while the republicans are rewriting their narrative on a daily basis
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bythegarbz ( 1787294 ) writes:
So it's politically based. Elon is supporting the wrong team
Not at all. It actually wouldn't matter what team he supported. If he gets up at a rally, Nazi salutes the crowd, and then burns the government down people don't really give a fuck which government was in power at the time.
One can hate someone for their actions alone without making it a "team" sport.
bydrnb ( 2434720 ) writes:
People who like to live on the planet Earth (that you slander as zealots) are not inclined to support people who engage in global worming denialism
Elon is not. Neither is Tesla. As a matter of fact both are part of the solution.
Elon even convinced the "coal rollers" that EVs are OK by getting Trump to by one. But the Dems can't see the ecological benefit here due to their political zealotry.
bynewcastlejon ( 1483695 ) writes:
Trump is basically doing what he said
Hesaid that he would bring down the cost of groceries on day one.
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byWaccoon ( 1186667 ) writes:
But that isn't within his power, never was
Pff... as if the lack of legal authority has ever stopped him.
bydrnb ( 2434720 ) writes:
You missed " that is driven by the absence of reciprocity"
and "will impose an individualized reciprocal higher tariff on the countries"
and "will remain in effect until such a time as President Trump determines that the threat posed by the trade deficit and underlying nonreciprocal treatment is satisfied, resolved, or mitigated"
bygaryisabusyguy ( 732330 ) writes:
If you read this posting on the DEA website (soon to be disappeared) [dea.gov] you can see that China is guilty of shipping PRECURSOR chemicals, that illicit drug labs use to make fentanyl that is then shipped into America
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