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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
byturkeyfish ( 950384 ) writes:
Perhaps the title of the article should read lawyers and doctors create too many patients.
byAnonymous Coward writes:
As I understand the current situation:
1) If they don't do the tests and catch a problem, the doctor and hospital will be sued.
1a) The results of a trial may put licenses at risk, depending upon the State Board's agressiveness.
2) If they due the tests either tax subsidized insurance or a Medicare type program will pay for the tests and treatment.
Conclusion: How could the situation any different.......
byaccount_deleted ( 4530225 ) writes:
Comment removed based on user account deletion
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bynomadic ( 141991 ) writes:
Very little, honestly. Medical malpractice suits constitute a tiny fraction of the cost of medicine; most of the blame belongs to insurance companies. There's a reason even a solo doctor's office has 5 people behind the counter handling billing, and it's not the lawyers.
byolsmeister ( 1488789 ) writes:
Medical malpractice insurance companies?
bynomadic ( 141991 ) writes:
It takes 5 people to mail an annual insurance premium once a year?
bystewbacca ( 1033764 ) writes:
If you are walking down the street and some overly litigious person crosses your path, you can be named in a lawsuit...anybody can sue anybody for anything, doesn't mean it's legitimate. And it especially doesn't mean doctors should be able to jack up their prices for it. Ask yourself this, if a doctor is immune from malpractice and drops their malpractice coverage, do you honestly believe a simple office visit will drop from $150 down to something reasonable, like $50? Of course not. They'll continue to
byphantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:
Wow, you're a lazy bum. Have you ever heard of this thing called Google? First search I got this link [wikipedia.org], with a bunch of statistics and links, including this statement:
Physician advocacy groups say 60% of liability claims against doctors are dropped, withdrawn, or dismissed without payment. However even those cases have a price, costing an average of more than $22,000 to defend in 2008 ($18,000 in 2007). Physicians are found not negligent in over 90% of cases that go to trial - yet more than $110,000 (2008 estimate, $100,000 in 2007) per case is spent defending those claims
A little more Googling found this: [wa.gov] which reports approximately 850 malpractice cases in a state with 19,000 doctors. That means on average each doctor will have to defend approx one malpractice case every 20 years. In other words, for a doctor, a malpractice case is more a question of "when" than "if."
There are more accurate numbers I'm sure
byh4rr4r ( 612664 ) writes:
Even then he is only out 100k every 20 years. Oh no, however will a doctor afford $5k a year to save up for this little eventuality.
byphantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:
I'm going to be charitable and assume you are drunk, and thus not as stupid as your incredibly dumb comment makes you look (sorry man, it's really that bad).
The $100k is court cost alone, it doesn't include settlement, which can be in the millions. In practice, medical malpractice insurance costs $30k a year or so. This is coming out of your pocket every time you go to the doctor.
byh4rr4r ( 612664 ) writes:
No it is not, free markets do not work that way. I go to the doctor and he bills what the market will bear. If he did not have to pay that he would keep the money as profit. Do you think he would give me a discount just because he is such a swell guy?
Besides you are talking about someone paying 10% of their income for insurance, not exactly a startling concept. Ever seen what insurance for a logging company costs? Mining operation? Any kind of heavy industry?
byphantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:
You are, quite frankly, the dumbest person I've ever met. You'd be way better off just saying, "I was wrong, wow, I learned something." Instead you've further made an idiot of yourself talking about mining operations. Go take a cold shower and sober up.
byjedidiah ( 1196 ) writes:
You are ranting and raving as if a multi-million dollar judgement is not infact proof that a doctor has made a dire mistake. You are really whining about doctors being held responsible for their mistakes. This is not a remarkable thing for any sort of professional or any proper adult really. Doctors need to be held accountable for their screwups and in some cases just plain greed and disregard. The same goes for incompetent nurses.
If there are too many malpractice suits, then it's time to consider cleaning up the profession in question.
Ignoring the problem will just ensure that quality of care degrades the the medical versions of Crassus never gets his due.
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byphantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:
No, my ranting, raving, and mocking is directed towards people who:
A) Can't do basic research to relieve their own stupid ignorance.
B) Don't have decent reading comprehension.
C) Are lost in the depths of some bizarre conspiracy theory, or are caught in serious logical fallacies.
I don't mock people who merely disagree with me. Read my posts again, and you'll see that.
You bring up an interesting point (although without any citation)
If there are too many malpractice suits, then it's time to consider cleaning up the profession in question.
This is something worth looking into. Preliminary research suggests tha
byDriedClexler ( 814907 ) writes:
You are ranting and raving as if a multi-million dollar judgement is not infact proof that a doctor has made a dire mistake
No, the fact that John Edwards could convinced 12 mouth-breathers through emotional rhetoric that a baby with birth defects is the fault of the doctor who was just around to pull the bugger out ... isn't very good proof that the doctor has made a dire mistake.
Of course, it doesn't help that the doctors make their art so resistant to scrutiny, either.
bySurt ( 22457 ) writes:
Actually, that doesn't suggest that. An alternative interpretation says that malpractice is hard to prove. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Do you, for example, also think that the ~85% of rape trials that don't result in conviction mean that the reported rape wasn't really rape?
http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/april2009/rape-conviction-rates-toolow.html [martinfrost.ws]
byphantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:
Do you have any reason to believe that the malpractice numbers are inaccurate, or are you just looking for a way to twist the numbers to support your preconceived notion? Because it really looks like the latter.
Do not be the man who uses statistics like a drunk man uses a lamp post: for support rather than illumination.
bySurt ( 22457 ) writes:
I just don't think that it's a realistic view, at all, to think that that many people are bringing merit-less claims. If you have a statistic that says a certain percentage of malpractice claims are fraudulent, that would be interesting to see. But unless you do, and again, I'd be interested to learn, I'd personally bet pretty heavily against it being more than 20%. The highest percentage claim I could find was 12.
byphantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:
I just don't think that it's a realistic view, at all, to think that that many people are bringing merit-less claims.
OK, it's good to know you think things. Let me know when you have reasons for thinking them.
bySurt ( 22457 ) writes:
Same as you, but at least I had statistics on my side.
byphantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:
Statistics weren't on your side. The physician was found not negligent in 90% of the cases that went to court. You claimed, without evidence, that it was too high, that in fact the physicians were probably negligent in many more cases.
Your only statistic was about fraudulent cases, but just because a case is not fraudulent doesn't mean the doctor is negligent, or should pay.
bystonewallred ( 1465497 ) writes:
I have insurance on my HVAC/R business. I had a choice between saying I installed gas appliances or did not install gas appliances (natural and propane).
Being I am rather fond of my money and stuff, I took the policy that included installing gas appliances.
It cost me almost $40 bucks a year to cover my installations of gas appliances.
This is a million dollars of liability insurance BTW. The total cost of my insurance (not counting vehicle or property) is around $500 bucks a year for liability coverage of
bycinnamon colbert ( 732724 ) writes:
lets stipulate that insurance costs 30K/yr (yes, I know Obgyns on Long Island NY pay 10x roughly)
For a medium size buisness, that doesn't sound out of hand, espicially given how the doctors never censure themselves (when was the last time you saw a doc loose his license ?) and they make no effort to have a pool of money with people with serious problems (lets say, for the sake of argument, they gave you to much of a toxic drug, and you need $ kidney dialysis for the rest of your life - if there was a pool
byphantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:
oh gosh, I thought you were saying something reasonable for a while until you brought class warfare into the situation. Really? You're a vindictive brat who thinks it's ok for doctors to pay a lot because they have a lot of money? You seriously think that doctors are out to 'keep you down' or 'hurt the middle class?' Actually that's pretty good, I'm really laughing here, that's the funniest thing I've heard all day. Thankyou.
bygordo3000 ( 785698 ) writes:
you realize you are off on malpractice insurance costs by an order of magnitude. In 2005, in florida, Orthopedics cost about 250k to insure, brain surgery about 500k, and even GP was 70k.
byphantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:
It varies widely by state. In some places, it costs as little as $6k a year for internal medicine. Florida has the most expensive malpractice insurance of all states.
bystewbacca ( 1033764 ) writes:
So what you are saying is doctors are stupid to pay for malpractice insurance, because they'll only ever be faced with it once every 20 years, and when they do, they should be able to pay out of their pocket, given how much money a doctor makes in 20 years. I'm pretty sure I could save $5k a year on a doctor's salary.
byphantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:
Aaaaaand I'm pretty sure you're an idiot who doesn't know how insurance works. Please turn on your brain before you type again, ever.
bystewbacca ( 1033764 ) writes:
I'm pretty sure you're a combative asshat who is too lazy to think about the numbers in your own post. I was expecting you to post something like, "doctors spend 25% of their earning defending against malpractice suits and insurance". Instead, you prove to us that the idea that doctors are jacking up practices to cover their malpractice costs is purely a myth.
byphantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:
It's ok, you can be sure of anything, and your reading comprehension will still suck. Read this sentence again, "more than $110,000 (2008 estimate, $100,000 in 2007) per case is spent defending [malpractice claims that go to court]" and tell me what part of that indicates how big the settlements were in those cases. I'll tell you: no part. If you ever become a doctor, the world will be lucky you didn't become an accountant. Asshole.
byRespekMyAthorati ( 798091 ) writes:
A person who only responds to those who disagree with him by means of personal insults only succeeds in making himself look foolish.
You are under 12 years old, aren't you?
byphantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:
As mentioned earlier, I don't insult people who merely disagree with me. I insult people who:
A) Make gregarious logical errors.
B) Can't be bothered to check basic information that is easily available.
C) Lack reading comprehension.
For people who disagree with me without being idiots, I tend to investigate, understand, and figure out why their view of the world is different than mine.
byCrimsonAvenger ( 580665 ) writes:
As mentioned earlier, I don't insult people who merely disagree with me. I insult people who:
A) Make gregarious logical errors.
There are really friendly logical errors? Never knew that.
By the by, I suspect you meant "egregious", not "gregarious".
byphantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:
Ah yes, thanks for the tip.
bydunkelfalke ( 91624 ) writes:
I think you failed statistics.
If something statistically happens once every 20 years, it does not mean that it happens after 20 years. It can happen on the first day already.
bycinnamon colbert ( 732724 ) writes:
At 400 bucks an hour for a hot shot lawyer, that works out to ....200 hours
me thinks the lawyers are gouging the docs, the AMA had any balls, they'd have 100 dollar an hour lawyers on retainer
byjedidiah ( 1196 ) writes:
...except there is going to be no "hot shot" lawyer. It's time you people stop getting your information about the legal profession from The Brady Bunch and Ally McBeal.
The lawyer defending the Doctor is going to be some salaried guy from the insurance company that makes far less than the doctor does. Insurance means that the insurance company is on the hook for the liability and they are the ones that are going to be fronting the costs to defend a claim.
byjedidiah ( 1196 ) writes:
It is the duty of anyone making a claim to back up that claim.
Otherwise, YOU are the lazy bum.
byphantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:
lol oh yeah? Do you have a citation for that claim?
byphantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:
The gp posted several times in the same thread, asking similar questions. In the time he/she spent doing that, he could have easily found the answers to his/her questions. Instead, he remained ignorant (that is, until I so kindly helped him out).
byCrimsonAvenger ( 580665 ) writes:
what's the actual chance of a hospital being successfully sued, though?
It should, perhaps, be noted that even an UNSUCCESSFUL suit costs piles of money to defend against.
And even the possibility of having to spend anywhere from hundreds of thousands to millions to defend yourself (even before the ruling) means doctors and hospitals will practice defensive medicine, in hopes of heading things off before it becomes time to write big checks to lawyers....
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