MediaWiki talk:Titleblacklist

Description of suggested change: I'm not sure exactly how this would be done, but could someone edit this to make it so that the filter .*\p{Lu}(\P{L}*\p{Lu}){9}.* <casesensitive | moveonly> # Disallows moves with more than nine consecutive capital letters allows moves in userspace that include someone's username if it matches that filter? I can't move my user subpages anywhere because I (foolishly) chose a username with all capital letters. LOOKSQUARE (👤️·🗨️) talk 21:35, 13 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

I am disinclined to modify sitewide rules to accommodate your admittedly foolish username choice. Consider changing your username. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 15:47, 15 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

@LOOKSQUARE: If there aren't too many pages that you want moved, you can ping me of which ones that would be, and I'll move them. SilverLocust 💬 22:39, 16 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Not done you may file an edit request on the page you want to move asking it to be moved. — xaosflux ^Talk 23:17, 16 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

WP:RM/TR#Uncontroversial technical requests would be the more usual place to request a Titleblacklist override. SilverLocust 💬 23:52, 16 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Per MOS:CURLY, we should almost always use straight quotes in titles. There are currently ~20 articles with curly quotes in the title, and for a while I was moving one every few days to use the proper symbol, indicating that the rule is being rampantly ignored. I suggest we enforce it by adding ’ (which seems to be much more common than the other characters) to the title blacklist, with a custom error message and possibly with restrictions on namespace. Thoughts? * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:43, 31 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

We already have a similar in spirit rule for blacklisting full-width characters, and have since 2008 (MediaWiki:Titleblacklist-custom-fullwidth). * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:50, 31 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

I've created an error message at MediaWiki:Titleblacklist-custom-curly-quote (not currently used). The exact rule to add would be .*’.* <errmsg=titleblacklist-custom-curly-quote. Does this seem reasonable to anyone else here? * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

I intend to add this in a few days if there are no further comments. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 16:15, 25 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 23:24, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

I recognize I'm late to the discussion, but I would like to raise an objection—redirects.

As an example, the page Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland (with the curly mark; redirects to Alice's Adventures in Wonderland) received about 48 pageviews in the 90 days before 28 June 2024. I'd say that's more than enough people to accomodate. They're finding the page by using the curly apostrophe, and that means that the redirects are useful. If the redirects don't exist, then a user will simply be shown a confusing and unhelpful 404 page.

On the date of 31 May 2024's featured article highlight, where the page Hundred Years' War was linked to (although it was not the featured article itself), there were 209 pageviews of the redirect with the curly mark (Hundred Years’ War), even though the redirect itself was not linked to. I don't know exactly what this means, but the redirect here is also clearly very useful.

Many of the redirects do already exist, but for future articles (and several current articles) they may not. That means that users have to ask someone with permissions to create the page, which, unfortunately, people usually don't take time to do, meaning that the redirect doesn't get created, meaning THE END OF THE WORLD!

The Wikipedia search bar converts curly marks to straight marks (just like how it's case-insensitive) if needed, but if an exact match exists instead (such as a redirect) it will take the user there instead; so some of these pageviews might have been okay even without the redirects. However, links and direct URLs are not converted, resulting in the confusion I was talking about earlier.

I suggest that the protection level for the ’ mark should at least be leveled down to allow autoconfirmed users to create the page, so that redirects with curly apostrophes can be created. — gabldotink [ talk | contribs | global account ] 21:07, 28 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

I've added the curly quote to Template:New page DYM so titles with curly quotes show a "did you mean" box even if no redirect exists like Second Hundred Years’ War. Does that satisfy you? And for the record the search bar in my interface will automatically take you to the version with the straight quote even if no redirect exists. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:21, 29 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

The topic is notable, but why is it on the blacklist? Toadette ^{(Let's talk together!)} 21:58, 3 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

See the entry in WP:DEEPER and Talk:K. Annamalai#Page protection. Curbon7 (talk) 22:00, 3 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

I can't help but notice that some of the blacklisted terms are either quite obscure or pretty much outdated as of 2024. I get why topics like BFDI and [blatantly offensive terms] are blacklisted. However, I don't fully understand how seemingly random and not-so-obvious terms like .*chaos.{0,5}ashington.* and .*,,+.* <moveonly> (and their variations) get blacklisted, especially those lacking any rationale. What are the rationales behind a lot of the "obscure" and unusual blacklisted terms (such as those already mentioned) and whether some of them should remain blacklisted at this moment? AlphaBeta135talk 15:47, 6 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

Usually because some specific spammer in the past tried unusually hard to create an article with that title. For the chaos entries the target appears to have been Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Jude Enemy. Since that specific SPI has no hits in over a decade it's probably safe to remove, but what's the point?

The punctuation entry you listed is related to Grawp according to the comment a few entries below it, but in any case two commas in a row is never a valid title so there's no reason to remove it.

There are definitely some other removables of the first sort, and some more where the blacklisting has failed, i.e there's still a blacklist entry trying to stop the creation of Ryan Hampton (writer), which was created circa 2019 and survived AfD. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 19:40, 6 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

Other rules that appear to have failed:

.*alisha.*panwar.* (Aalisha Panwar)

.*janhvi.*kapoor.* # Repeated recreation for promotional purposes. Article is salted, but salting tends to inspire work-around articles. (Janhvi Kapoor)

.*alexa.*curtis.* # https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?prefix=Alexa+Curtis&title=Special%3AUndelete&fuzzy=1 (Alexa Curtis (entrepreneur))

.*sahbabi.* (SahBabii) - I think, as I have no idea what the intended target for this blacklisting is.

* Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:51, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

.*kob.*arad.* # Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:Kobi Arad, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kobi Arad (2nd nomination) (Kobi Arad) * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 20:00, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

.*amuel.*omerville # Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sebi wj (Samuel Somerville, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football#Failed footballer saltings) * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:33, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

Here are more blacklisted terms that I either find a little outdated or not very straightforward:

• .*BU Rob13.* <casesensitive>
• .*ge orrg.* <moveonly>
• .*'H'.* <moveonly>
• .*mixing.*sailors.*
• .*untold.*news.*
• .*impressions.*business.*professional.*
• *HIGH19\.COM.*
• .*Brian.*Peppers.*
• .*Vandalism is Terrorism.*

AlphaBeta135talk 22:15, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

BU Rob13 is the name of a user who has since courtesy vanished. It's probably not needed years later, but is harmless.

I have no idea what the purpose of "ge orrg" is - it dates back to 2008 and can probably be removed, but is also unlikely to appear in a valid title and hence harmless

'H' is presumably a Grawp remnant of some sort and can probably be removed.

"Mixing Sailors" is exactly what it says on the tin. Whatever this is has apparently been going on for years, i.e Mixing Sailors (created 2010), Mixing.Sailors (created 2015), Mixing×Sailors (created 2017). There have been evasions like Draft:Mïxing/Saïlors as recently as 2023 so I think it still servers a purpose.

Untold News was trying to stop spam on a specific organization, deleted as Untold News, Draft:Untold News, etc. I probably would not have blacklisted this with so few deletions, but it still makes sense.

Impressions Business Professional - see Draft:First Impressions for the Business Professional, Draft:First Impressions for the Business Professional.(BOOK), etc.

HIGH19.com is apparently for Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Dsdgfgsa/Archive, which seems to have died, but unless this website becomes notable there's no point to removing it.

Brian Peppers - see Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 February 21/Brian Peppers. I think its best this mess not be unearthed.

Vandalism is Terrorism is apparently a title one specific page-move vandal used over a few days in 2008. I doubt it ever did anything useful. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:38, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

BU Rob13 is here for good reasons I would rather not elaborate on. I would not recommend removing it. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 11:25, 18 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

The following rules appear to have failed:

1. .*kob.*arad.* # Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:Kobi Arad, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kobi Arad (2nd nomination)(added by MER-Cin2017 - the subject it is targeting now exists as Kobi Arad after being accepted by Cullen328atWikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive344#Kobi Arad / Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive344#Unlocking page for Kobi Arad.
2. .*alisha.*panwar.* added by MER-C in 2017) - the subject it is targeting now exists as Aalisha Panwar after being accepted by Missvain at AfC.
3. .*janhvi.*kapoor.* # Repeated recreation for promotional purposes. Article is salted, but salting tends to inspire work-around articles. added by Cyphoidbombin2018 - the subject it is targeting now exists at Janhvi Kapoor, which was only ever extended-confirmed protected and has been stable as an article since 2019.
4. .*amuel.*omerville # [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sebi wj]] added by Ivanvectorin2020 - the subject it is targeting now exists at Samuel Somerville after discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 165#Failed footballer saltings
5. .*((ryan.*?hampton|hampton.*?ryan)).* added by MER-C in 2017) - article subject exists at Ryan Hampton (writer) and survived Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ryan Hampton (writer)
6. .*sahbabi.* (added by MER-C in 2017 - article subject exists at SahBabii).
7. .*alexa.*curtis.* # https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?prefix=Alexa+Curtis&title=Special%3AUndelete&fuzzy=1 (added by MER-C in 2020) - subject now exists at Alexa Curtis (entrepreneur) after Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive345#Alexa M. Curtis)

Is there any reason these rules shouldn't be deleted? They make it harder to create talk page archives, deletion discussions, etc. and provide no apparent additional value. The last one also matches many people other than the intended target. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 00:00, 18 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

I wouldn't say "failed", the point isn't to stop the articles ever being created, just to stop the sockpuppets repeatedly recreating unsuitable pages. If they've been created by someone in good faith and also reviewed before being moved over the salted titles, in my view that's what's supposed to happen and so the rules were actually successful. One thing though: I would carefully check the histories of the articles created after salting to ensure there's not a hijacked article in the history, that's a common way of evading salting and history splits/merges may be necessary. Otherwise I say go ahead and remove the entries, they're no longer needed. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 12:11, 18 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

I guess I'm more cynical than you are. And Special:PermaLink/839309087 for SahBabii is an outright failure IMO

Anyway, that's irrelevant now, and none of these seem to have been hijacks. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 16:50, 18 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Removed * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 00:22, 22 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

At least two variations have been targets of global lock evasion by self-professed promoterorpromoters using self-created sourcing: Aleksandar Saša Trajkovski and Aleksandar Sasha Trajkovski (the latter was a WP:GAMENAME and WP:PGAME creation). They are running a scheme going many years back (see AfD for an old article by the same individual/group: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Irena Jordanova; there also may be something at Talk:Irena Jordanova). An incident is described at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1149#Promoter generates online coverage in real time. Recently at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Мкдвики. Plausible targets are『Saša Trajkovski (writer)』and "Aleksandar S. Trajkovski" (see Draft:Saša Trajkovski (writer)), plausibly "Sasha Trajkovski (writer)", etc. Aleksandar Trajkovski is a footballer.

Star Mississippi made a reference to salting in the SPI, but I don't think that anything was ever salted; this gave me an idea to ask for action here. I think that there was significant discussion, with multiple editors expressing concern over this activity. From where I see it, blacklisting should be a net positive. Thanks for considering. —Alalch E. 14:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

I misread the logs and thought @CactusWriter had SALTed it.

In the deleted history from Doktortrajkovski (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) there's reference to Александар Саша Трајковски on Macedonian wiki but it appears deleted. (Not sure whether anyone reads Macedonian) so likely cross wiki spam.

Not helpful on the tech side at all, but I support any action here. Star Mississippi 15:17, 21 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

The legitimate Aleksandar Trajkovski article greatly limits what we're able to do here without interfering with its talk page archives and other subpages, and (more hypothetically) nominations for deletion. (Lots of other titles containing "Trajkovski", too.) I suppose we could blacklist everywhere except in the talk and Wikipedia namespaces. Trying to look for disambiguators would be futile.

Initial analysis here. Are the draft pages (deleted) and/or user pages (not deleted) problematic? Anything whose creation should have been prevented that doesn't show up on that list? —Cryptic 15:58, 21 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

There's been a Cyrillic-titled draft at Draft:Александар Саша Трајковски, so perhaps what should also be prevented, that is not in the list, are the following: Mainspace page with titles including Александар Саша Трајковски, Александар С. Трајковски, Саша Трајковски. In general, variations without "Aleksandar", i.e. Saša Trajkovski, Sasha Trajkovski and Саша Трајковски seem plausible to me.

Creation of drafts and user pages is not a real concern in my view. Blacklisting everywhere except in talk and project would be great, and blacklisting only in mainspace seems OK to me as well.

(Side note: the oldest page in the list is from 2010). —Alalch E. 17:24, 21 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

The first two non-Aleksandar variations are caught by the sa\w+a\b alternative. Cyrillic titles would have to be blacklisted separately, and since false positives are less harmful here - we can handle edit requests to create redirects, which is all they should ever be - they can be covered with something like (Александар|Саша).*Трајковски. Blacklisting in mainspace only is difficult, since the match is done on the full page title and mainspace titles are defined by not having any of a long list of other namespaces' prefixes; but easy enough to allow Draft: in addition to the Talk: and Wikipedia: and Wikipedia talk: mentioned in the description of my query. —Cryptic 17:57, 21 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Got it. Thank you. —Alalch E. 21:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Following closure of the SPI and the subsequent G5 deletion, both Aleksandar Sasha Trajkovski and Aleksandar Saša Trajkovski are now salted. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 17:07, 22 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Done. The salting at Aleksandar Sasha Trajkovski isn't entirely redundant (blacklisted titles can also be created by pagemovers and templateeditors); but I see no protection at Aleksandar Saša Trajkovski. —Cryptic 17:48, 22 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Done Resalted. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 22:10, 23 July 2024 (UTC)Reply