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Many of these questions arise frequently on the talk page concerning Muhammad.
Q1: Shouldn't all the images of Muhammad be removed because they might offend Muslims?
A1:
Further information: Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not § Wikipedia is not censored, and Wikipedia:Content disclaimer There is a prohibition of depicting Muhammad in certain Muslim communities. This prohibition is not universal among Muslim communities. For a discussion, see Depictions of Muhammad and Aniconism in Islam. Wikipedia is not bound by any religious prohibitions, and it is an encyclopedia that strives to represent all topics from a neutral point of view, and therefore Wikipedia is not censored for the sake of any particular group. So long as they are relevant to the article and do not violate any of Wikipedia's existing policies, nor the laws of locations where Wikipedia's servers are hosted, no content or images will be removed from Wikipedia because people find them objectionable or offensive. (See also: Wikipedia:Content disclaimer.) Wikipedia does not single out Islam in this. There is content that may be equally offensive to other religious people, such as the 1868 photograph shown at Bahá'u'lláh (offensive to adherents of the Bahá'í Faith), or the account of Scientology's "secret doctrine" at Xenu (offensive to adherents of Scientology), or the account at Timeline of human evolution (offensive to adherents of young Earth creationism). Submitting to all these various sensitivities would make writing a neutral encyclopedia impossible.
Q2: Aren't the images of Muhammad false?
A2: No claim is made about the accuracy of the depictions of Muhammad. The artists who painted these images lived hundreds of years after Muhammad and could not have seen him themselves. This fact is made absolutely clear in the image captions. The images are duly presented as notable 14th- to 17th-century Muslim artwork depicting Muhammad, not as contemporary portraits. See Depictions of Muhammad for a more detailed discussion of Muslim artwork depicting Muhammad.
Similar artistic interpretations are used in articles for Homer, Charlemagne, Paul of Tarsus, and many other historical figures. When no accurate images (i.e. painted after life, or photographs) exist, it is a longstanding practice on Wikipedia to incorporate images that are historically significant artwork and/or typical examples of popular depictions. Using images that readers understand to be artistic representations, so long as those images illustrate the topic effectively, is considered to be more instructive than using no image at all. Random recent depictions may be removed as undue in terms of notability, while historical artwork (in this case, of the Late Medieval or Ottoman period) adds significantly to the presentation of how Muhammad was being topicalized throughout history. These depictions are not intended as factual representations of Muhammad's face; rather, they are merely artists' conceptions. Such portrayals generally convey a certain aspect of a particular incident, most commonly the event itself, or maybe the act, akin to the Western genre of history painting. The depictions are, thus, not meant to be accurate in the sense of a modern photograph, and are presented here for what they are: yet another form in which Muhammad was depicted. None of these pictures hold a central position in the article, as evident by their placement, nor are they an attempt to insult the subject. Several factions of Christianity oppose the use of hagiographic imagery (even to the point of fighting over it), but the images are still on Wikipedia, exactly for what they are—i.e. artistic renditions of said people.
Q3: How can I hide the images using my personal Wikipedia settings?
A3: If you do not wish to view Muhammad images, you can hide the depictions in this article from your personal account by following these steps:
.page-Muhammad .depiction {display: none;} Please note that this will not hide the images for other users, or from yourself if you log out of your account. Alternatives: If you do not have an account, and do not wish to register an account, you can disable all images on Wikipedia by going to the mobile version of the website (en.m.wikipedia.org), then going to "settings" and choosing "images off". You may also block a list of specified images, following the format of this example. Experienced JavaScript programmers can hide depictions of Muhammad on the desktop site using Greasemonkey or a similar tool.
Q4: Why does the infobox at the top of the article contain a stylized logo and not a picture of Muhammad?
A4: This has been discussed many times on Talk:Muhammad and many debates can be found in the archives. Because calligraphic depictions of Muhammad are the most common and recognizable worldwide, the current consensus is to include a calligraphic depiction of Muhammad in the infobox and artists' depictions further down in the article. An RFC discussion confirmed this consensus.
Q5: Why is Muhammad's name not followed by (pbuh)or(saw) in the article?
A5:
Wikipedia's biography style guidelines recommend omitting all honorifics, such as The Prophet, (The) Holy Prophet, (pbuh), or (saw), that precede or follow Muhammad's name. This is because many editors consider such honorifics as promoting an Islamic point of view instead of a neutral point of view which Wikipedia is required to maintain. Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people) also recommends against the use of titles or honorifics, such as Prophet, unless it is the simplest and most neutral way to deal with disambiguation. When disambiguation is necessary, the recommended form is the Islamic prophet Muhammad.
Further information: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Islam-related articles § Muhammad
Q6: Why does the article say that Muhammad is the "founder" of Islam?
A6: While the Muslim viewpoint about Muhammad is already presented in the article, a Wikipedia biography article should emphasize historical and scholarly viewpoints. The contention that Islam has always existed is a religious belief, grounded in faith, and Wikipedia cannot promote religious beliefs as facts. Because no religion known as "Islam" exists in any recorded history prior to Muhammad, and Muhammad created the conditions for Islam to spread by unifying Arabia into a single religious polity, he effectively founded the establishment of Islam as the dominant religion in the region. The word "founder" is used in that context, and not intended to imply that Muhammad invented the religion he introduced to Arabia.
Q7: Why does it look like the article is biased toward secular or "Western" references?
A7:
Further information: Wikipedia:Assume good faith and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view Accusations of bias toward Western references are often made when an objection is raised against the display of pictures of Muhammad or lack of honorifics when mentioning Muhammad. All articles on Wikipedia are required to present a neutral point of view. This neutrality is sometimes mistaken for hostility. Note that exactly the same guidelines apply to articles about Christianity or any other religion. In addition, this article is hosted on the English-language Wikipedia. While references in languages other than English are not automatically inappropriate, English-language references are preferred, because they are of the most use to the typical reader. This therefore predisposes the material used in this article to some degree (see WP:NONENG).
Q8: Why can't I edit this article as a new or anonymous user?
A8: Persistent disruption of the page has forced us to disable editing by anonymous editors and new accounts, while still allowing edits by more experienced users who are familiar with Wikipedia's editorial policies and guidelines. This is likely to remain the case for the foreseeable future.
In any case, the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License grants everybody the right to republish this article elsewhere, and even to modify it themselves, so long as the original authors (Wikipedia contributors) are also credited and the derivative work is distributed under the same license.
Q9: Can censorship be employed on Wikipedia?
A9: No. The official policy is that Wikipedia is not censored.
Q10: Because Muhammad married an underage girl, should the article say he was a pedophile?
A10:
This question has been actively discussed in Talk:Muhammad, and those discussions are archived. According to most traditional sources, Muhammad consummated his marriage to his third wife Aisha when she was nine years old. This was not considered unusual in Muhammad's culture and time period; therefore, there is no reason for the article to refer to Muhammad in the context of pedophilia.[1] Even today, in parts of the world, the legal age of consent is as young as eleven years old, or any age inside of a marriage. In any case, any modern controversy about Aisha's age is not best dealt with in a biography about Muhammad. See the articles on Aisha and Criticism of Muhammad § Aisha for further information.
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Please read Talk:Muhammad/FAQ for answers to these frequently-asked questions (you need to tap "Read as wiki page" to see the relevant text):
This section is for mobile-device users who do not see the normal talk page header. This section should not have any comments, so that it stays on this talk page and does not get archived.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
It has recently been brought to light that this page and its sourcing have been altered fairly wholesale since the page was last reviewed and kept as GA, and that there is little reason to believe the level of former quality has been maintained; on the contrary, recent informal assessments by editors have uncovered significant issues in terms of prior content and source removal, as well as in terms of the quality of new sourcing and the resulting balance of the page and its contents. The sum conclusion of the current state of affairs has already been assessed by several editors as no longer meeting GA standard. For details, see the existing talk page discussion at Talk:Muhammad#Removal of "good article" status, as well as the broader discussion entitled Talk:Muhammad#Recent neutrality concerns, and other subsequent talk page discussions. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:43, 1 September 2023 (UTC)Reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I think that we should add this category because he committed Invasion of Banu Qurayza. Sharouser (talk) 13:39, 28 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Extend the info box patronymic to include what is verified up to Muhammad's forefather Adnan
Ibn ʿAbd Allāh ibn ʿAbd al-Muṭṭalib ibn Hāshim ibn ʿAbd Manāf ibn Quṣayy ibn Kilāb ibn Murrah ibn Ka'b ibn Lu'ayy ibn Ghālib ibn Fihr ibn Mālik ibn An-Nadr ibn Kinānah ibn Khuzaymah ibn Mudrika ibn Ilyās ibn Mudar ibn Nizār ibn Ma'add ibn 'Adnān
ٱبْن عَبْد ٱللَّٰه بْن عَبْد ٱلْمُطَّلِب بْن هَاشِم بْن عَبْد مَنَاف بْن قُصَيّ بْن كِلَاب بْن مُرّة بْن كَعْب بْن لُؤَيّ بْن غَالِب بْن فِهْر بْن مَالَك بْن النَّضْر بْن كِنَانَة بْن خُزَيْمَة بْن مُدْرِكَة بْن إِلْيَاس بْن مُضَر بْن نِزَار بْن مَعَدّ بْن عَدْنَان MahmoudBinOmar (talk) 07:13, 15 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
The claim that the Quran does not refer to the ascension into Heaven (Mi'raj) is false. This is a topic discussed in Surah An-Najm, verses 13-18. I will push changes once I've analyzed the relevant content and determined what revisions need to take place. Emperor Ibrahim I (talk) 07:09, 17 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Muhammad's night journey. The qur'anic grounding of the ascent (mi'raj) of Muhammad is tenuous in two ways. In the first place, the ascent is not described and the term mi'raj is not used in the Qur'an. Secondly, the Qur'an stresses that Muhammad brings no miracle (q.v.) other than the divinely-wrought miracle of the Qur'an itself (see INIMITABILITY). Even so, key qur'anic passages are woven through the post-qur'anic narrative of Muhammad's ascent.
A very long discussion |
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Throughout Muslim and Non-Muslim sources, there is not a single "Sahih" (Authentic) report of the Satanic verses incident. Every one of these is either "Sahih Mursal" (Sahih in chain but disconnected) or lower such as "Da'if" (Weak). QcTheCat (talk) 03:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)Reply This article states that the most "authentic reports" tell us that there is no evidence of the Banu Qurayza's break of the treaty. But there very clearly is. Banu Qurayza also did not deny the accusation, this is completely false. As we see in Taarekh At Tabari: Banu Qurayza Leaders to attackers: "There is no treaty between us and Mohammed and no covenant." (The History of Tabari: Events of the Year 5) There are many more but I'll include one to start the conversation QcTheCat (talk) 04:17, 20 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
References from all posts in the section from all editors
Just have to say that current writing "On the exact day the Quraysh forces and their allies withdrew, Muhammad, while bathing at his wife's abode, received a visit from the angel Gabriel, who instructed him to attack the Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza." doesn't work in WP-voice. At all. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:43, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
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A very long discussion | ||
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The sources need better balancing in both these sections. There's an overemphasis on Russ Rodgers, who is a marginal scholar at best, and just a single voice. The second section is almost entirely sourced to Rodgers. That's disastrously undue. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:09, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
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"Following the Battle of Badr, Muhammad revealed his intention to expel the Jews from the land."
Does anyone know which source says this? And can they quote it? Aside from the tone issues, I don't trust this as correct paraphrasing one bit. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:16, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
So what was Muhammad’s motivation? The seeds for this can be found in his earlier declaration after the battle of Badr that he intended to exile the Jews from the land.
Narrated Abu Huraira:
While we were in the mosque, Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came out to us and said, "Let us proceed to the Jews." So we went along with him till we reached Bait-al-Midras (a place where the Torah used to be recited and all the Jews of the town used to gather). The Prophet (ﷺ) stood up and addressed them, "O Assembly of Jews! Embrace Islam and you will be safe!" The Jews replied, "O Aba-l-Qasim! You have conveyed Allah's message to us." The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "That is what I want (from you)." He repeated his first statement for the second time, and they said, "You have conveyed Allah's message, O Aba-l- Qasim." Then he said it for the third time and added, "You should Know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to exile you from this land, so whoever among you owns some property, can sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."
— Kaalakaa (talk) 22:21, 28 May 2024 (UTC)ReplyIt has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say:
I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.
Pinging editors who recently edited this article: @Omnipaedista, @Anachronist, @Freeman501, @Sumanuil, @Nardog, @Sharouser, @Johnbod, @VenusFeuerFalle, @Scientelensia, @BilledMammal, @Dronebogus
So, Iskandar323 recently made a number of edits to this article, but some of them just seem to me to constitute WP:CENSORSHIP. One example is his deletion of this cited material:
At first, Muhammad planned to annihilate the surrendered tribe,
with an edit summary “Copyediting" [24].
The material itself is supported by the reliable sources cited (I can add more if needed)
Muhammad wanted to put all of them to death
Following their capitulation, their men were almost beheaded, but Abdallah ibn Ubayy forced Muhammad to spare them and let the tribe go into exile.
The phrase attributed to Abdulla by Ibn Ishaq, "Would you cut them down in one morning?" implies that the Jews were about to be put to death.
It is clear from this exchange that Muhammad planned to implement the extreme consequences of the victor in those days by executing the warriors and selling the women and children into slavery.
So, what do you all think, does the removal constitute WP:CENSORSHIP? — Kaalakaa (talk) 22:18, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
He ordered the Jewish men killed and the women and children sold as slaves or given as booty—in other words, he ordered the annihilation of the tribe." This is something that, according to the sources above, would also have happened to the Banu Qaynuqa if Abdullah ibn Ubayy had not intervened. Thus, using the word "annihilate" to describe this action (and as an effort to avoid copyvio) is not unacademic. If you believe the word is not NPOV, you can discuss it on the talk page instead of deleting it outright, although I couldn't seem to find the word in MOS:WTW. Additionally, you also changed [29]:
Muhammad thus spared their lives, stipulating that they must depart Medina within three days and relinquish their property to the Muslims, with Muhammad retaining a fifth.
Muhammad spared the Qaynuqa, stipulating that they must depart Medina within three days and relinquish their property to the Muslims, with a fifth being retained as khums or Islamic tax.
a fifth being retained as khums or Islamic tax," is not supported by any cited sources, thus constitutes WP:OR and WP:CENSORSHIP. To prevent this from happening again, if you do not have access to the sources, please refrain from making significant changes to the article, especially those that alter its meaning. — Kaalakaa (talk) 07:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Is it genuinely true that none of Brockopp, Glubb, Rodinson or Rodgers elucidate this detail or provide the relevant terminology?
The page is currently populated with a large volume of sources with no quotes
no direct links to sources with page numbers, and often no links at all.
Do not reject reliable sources just because they are difficult or costly to access. Some reliable sources are not easily accessible." — Kaalakaa (talk) 09:23, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
References
Let me clearly note that Maxime Rodinson, a Marxist, is not a valid source here nor on any page of major religious figures. He should not be cited nor referenced. This is not a place for ideologies, be it Marxism or otherwise--it is a place for accurate and unbiased factual reporting of information, adhering to neutrality (see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view), and from reliable sources (see Wikipedia:Reliable sources). Rodinson is not a reliable source. Wikipedia does not promote a certain ideology nor narrative, be it Marxist or otherwise. If you want to add Marxist comments, create a new page for "Marxist Views of Islam" and move it over there, please. DivineReality (talk) 08:47, 2 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Overwhelmed by her beauty, Muhammad took her to bed that night, contradicting his own mandate that his followers should wait for the captives' next menstrual cycle to begin before having intercourse." As far as I can tell, Rodinson has little training in Islamic law, so how can he decree that Muhammad violated Islamic law? For example, Dar al-Ifta al-Misriyyah, which is indeed an expert in Islamic law, contradicts this view.VR (Please ping on reply) 04:46, 10 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Base articles on reliable, independent, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy." That "independent" word is linked to WP:IS, which says: "
An independent source is a source that has no vested interest in a given Wikipedia topic and therefore is commonly expected to cover the topic from a disinterested perspective." I do not think that Dar al-Ifta al-Misriyyah meets this description. Additionally, you might want to read these explanations from @Apaugasma [40] [41] and @SMcCandlish [42]. Regarding Rodinson's statement, this publication[1] from Edinburgh University Press, written by a Professor of Islamic and Middle Eastern History, seems to align with Rodinson, that Muhammad's act of consummating his marriage with Safiyya shortly after she became a widow (following the killing of her husband on Muhammad's orders) contradicts Islamic law itself.
— Kaalakaa (talk) 05:35, 10 June 2024 (UTC)Replyp. 27
Following the same pattern, in 628 Muhammad invaded a Jewish tribe in Khaybar, north of Medina. After defeating them, he surveyed the women captives. A Jewish woman, named Safiyya, charmed the Prophet with her beauty. He threw his gown at her, as a mark that she had become his captive. Safiyya had witnessed her husband being killed by Muhammad; despite that, the Prophet sent her immediately to be beautified for him, and the marriage was consummated in or near Khaybar a few days later. Muhammad was not concerned with Safiyya’s feelings or her grief over the deaths of her husband and father. In this instance, the Prophet was acting against the clear commands of the Qur’an, in that when a woman is divorced or becomes a widow, she cannot remarry unless four months and ten days have passed (in order to ensure there is no pregnancy from the previous relationship) (Q. 2:234).
"cover the topic from a disinterested perspective". Since, he is actually a very interested party. StarkReport (talk) 05:54, 10 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Following the same pattern, in 628 Muhammad invaded a Jewish tribe in Khaybar, north of Medina. After defeating them, he surveyed the women captives. A Jewish woman, named Safiyya, charmed the Prophet with her beauty. He threw his gown at her, as a mark that she had become his captive. Safiyya had witnessed her husband being killed by Muhammad; despite that, the Prophet sent her immediately to be beautified for him, and the marriage was consummated in or near Khaybar a few days later. Muhammad was not concerned with Safiyya’s feelings or her grief over the deaths of her husband and father. In this instance, the Prophet was acting against the clear commands of the Qur’an, in that when a woman is divorced or becomes a widow, she cannot remarry unless four months and ten days have passed (in order to ensure there is no pregnancy from the previous relationship) (Q. 2:234).
Regardless, Rodinson being a Marxist is ultimately completely irrelevant, since where one is on the politico-economic spectrum isn't a religious matter or vice versa. To the extent that a lot of Marxists are/were somewhere between irreligious and atheist is also immaterial, since it doesn't equate to a bone to pick with Islam or Muhammad in particular. Lots of biblical archaeologists and other reliable scholars of Abrahamic history are also in the same camp, and this doesn't magically make their work invalid; indeed, it is more likely to be trustworthy because it will not be pitting Judaic versus Christian versus Muslim traditions against each other out of a fervent belief in which one is True, and it won't be putting belief ahead of what can be verified or reasonably deduced from actual evidence. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 06:23, 10 June 2024 (UTC); rev'd. 17:18, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
"Editors should consider whether the source meets the normal requirements for reliable sources, such as ... the level of independence from the topic the source is covering."
Historical subjects generally require (secular) academic scholarly sources.
— Kaalakaa (talk) 08:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)ReplyIn general, authors ... who explicitly self-identify as Muslim scholars and who write from an explicitly Islamic religious perspective should all be treated as primary sources on this topic, i.e. their views should only be given if and as discussed by secular secondary sources.
She has no less than four honorary doctorates, including two in letters and two in divinity.
Divinity is the study of Christian theology and ministry at a school, divinity school, university, or seminary." So it has nothing to do with the study of history, and, "
Honorary doctorates are purely titular degrees in that they confer no rights on the recipient and carry with them no formal academic qualification."
It's not relevant, because a lifetime of experience and recognition is worth far more than any degree
having little to no academic background" [54](which you couldn't prove when I asked). But now, you consider Karen Armstrong, who only majored in English, as a top historian? J.K. Rowling also has an OBE, FRSL, plus a CH, which Karen doesn't have, and her work, Harry Potter, has been cited over 1,800 times. So that means the statements in her book can be used as references for Wikipedia articles on history, geography, science, medicine, etc.? No, her work is just a novel, and that's how we should treat Karen Armstrong's work as well. Also, please note that WP:USEBYOTHERS states, "
If outside citation is the main indicator of reliability, particular care should be taken to adhere to other guidelines and policies."And our other policy, WP:OR, states, "
Books published by university presses" are among "
the most reliable sources." So, it's clear that using the number of times a work is cited as an indicator of reliability is applicable when the reliability of the subject-matter expert source is still uncertain, such as when it is not published by a university press, etc. Karen Armstrong, however, is clearly not a subject-matter expert. — Kaalakaa (talk) 16:11, 12 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
... said the person who previously claimed that a military historian is a retired military personnel [55] who became a hobbyist historian [56] and that adjunct professors are not reliable because they are non-tenure [57], a statement as ridiculous as saying that a NASA lead scientist is not reliable because they are an adjunct professor at a certain university.Your lack of awareness about academic standards, hierarchy and prestige could fill volumes
so interpreters of religious traditions ... are of course relevant subject-matter experts.
An understanding of the religious traditions
The talk page is crowded with Muslims. What evidence do you have to support such a claim? And which specific editors are you referring to? If you have evidence and you believe it's hindering the ability for those users to neutrally edit and discuss this article, then WP:COIN is the appropriate venue to adjudicate such matters. Left guide (talk) 05:45, 14 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
References from all posts in the section from all editors
FAQ No. 5 | ||
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"Change Muhammad to Muhammad Peace be upon him" Aadaab (talk) 23:21, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
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Note that "The Life of Muhammad: A Translation of Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah. Translated by Guillaume, Alfred" is not an authentic source. It contains inauthentic hadith which have no chain of transmission. See this website and this website for example. You cannot just pick out random hadith from these types of works. Ibn Ishaq is a collection of all kinds of narrations, from fabricated to authentic, without any hadith criticism. It's just a collection of "what's being narrated," designed for hadith scholars to read and scrutinize for authenticity. A hadith without a chain is not authentic and is not a valid source. Just because a book somewhere says something, doesn't mean we can just pop it on Wikipedia as if it is a valid source. This is certainly not and has already been disproven. DivineReality (talk) 02:56, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
This article was revised so poorly by an Islamophobic editor. This article used to be a good article GA before some anti-Islam editor made such huge changes and implementing WP:POV. The biased editor just cherry-picked sources, ignoring classical works such as W. Montgomery Watt and relying on people like David Bukay (an Israeli political scientist who is known to be an anti-Arab and Islamophobic person), Russ Rodgers (a U.S. Army military historian), Ram Swarup (an Indian leader of the Hindu revivalist movement), William E. Phipps (a ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and others. There's no way these people are WP:RS and I'm actually surprised how dedicated orientalists like Watt have so less citations now than people like Bukay, Rodgers etc. I request the editors of this article to rewrite the article, and if not the entire article, then at least parts of the article. I would suggest this article be written like FA articles such as Khalid ibn al-Walid, Amr ibn al-As, Mu'awiya I, Yazid I, all of whom are controversial figures between Shia Muslims and Sunni Muslims, but nevertheless these articles are written neutrally neither from a Shia point of view nor a Sunni point of view and having reliable orientalists and Islamicists such as Fred Donner, Wilferd Madelung, Meir Jacob Kister, Patricia Crone, Hugh N. Kennedy, R. Stephen Humphreys and not anti-Arab political scientists, Hindu revivalists or U.S. military historians. I would request the editors of this article to revise the sources. ProudRafidi (talk) 11:07, 13 June 2024 (UTC) Sockstrike ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 21:51, 15 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
"expected to cover the topic from a disinterested perspective."StarkReport (talk) 14:30, 14 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Fyi, ProudRadifi is another sock of the LTA Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SheryOfficial. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
For regulars and watchers of this page, there is a new discussion open at WP:RSN#RfC: Sources for Muhammad. Left guide (talk) 06:17, 14 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
The same group of people may have some slight interest in watching Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Anachronist. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:13, 16 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Comparing this article to the article on Jesus, I think the structure of this article is deficient, separate from but related to the issues regarding the sourcing in the article discussed previously. It presents the account of Muhammad's life as is known through early biographies and hadith largely uncritically, when many contemporary scholars have questioned the reliability of these sources, particularly the hadith (see [61] [62] [63] [64]). I think the best way to fix this would be to put all of the biographic headings (i.e the contents of the subheadings "Meccan years". "Medinan years" and "Final years") under a new heading like "Biography according to traditional Islamic sources", and then a new section should be creating discussing what scholars consider knowable or probable about the "historical Muhammad". Hemiauchenia (talk) 14:11, 27 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Kaalakaa appears to have re-written the article Battle of Badr. I have concern with their changes and have started several discussions at Talk:Battle of Badr. I would appreciate other users' views.VR (Please ping on reply) 12:25, 28 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Now that the ANI has been resolved, I think it's a good time to aim for a consensus on what to do with material cited to Rodgers. If I was to start purging it from the article, would there be any objections? And if so, what would be the ideal course of action instead? Left guide (talk) 05:23, 1 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
I've also reset a couple of relatively Rodgers-heavy sections (namely "Battle of the Trench" and "Conquest of Mecca") to their May 2023 status quo versions. Left guide (talk) 00:45, 5 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
To piggyback off of Talk:Muhammad/Archive 34#Suspect sources where the original post said I have no doubt that there are plenty of other sources of this ilk that have found their way onto the page
, I noticed that this book was absent in the status quo May 2023 version but has since entered the article with dozens of citations, frequently bundling or supplementing suspect sources like Rodgers and Glubb; it may have slipped under the radar as it appears to be undiscussed on the talk page and archives. How reliable and WP:DUEisRichard A. Gabriel for this article? Is he in the top tiers of the global Muhammad scholarship community? Or are we dealing with another Rodgers-level author? For what it's worth, it's also a military-focused book published by a university press, and the end of the Google Books description says Richard A. Gabriel challenges existing scholarship on Muhammad's place in history and offers a viewpoint not previously attempted.
which makes me wonder if it's a WP:FRINGE point-of-view. pinging eligible participants from the "suspect sources" discussion @Iskandar323, Gråbergs Gråa Sång, Anachronist, and DeCausa: Left guide (talk) 06:46, 5 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Moved to Talk:Muhammad/images
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make Muhammad Prophet Muhammad Expenderous (talk) 18:31, 8 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
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why you adding not just alexandre but great alexander if yo not use any rank nick or definitions something like status for example ataturk is not surname its a rank you must write as kemal not more but few names including its hipocracy and insultment you will punish for that things you working to increase western values and attacking hiddenly cultures in east ya you will take response and pay heavly mass account do not worry every thing come back to you with equilevent or much much more weight 178.233.46.107 (talk) 00:08, 20 July 2024 (UTC)Reply