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→Move whole of this inappropriately and misleadingly mis-named article to its correct location: close discssion: rename to to James Braid (surgeon)
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== Move whole of this inappropriately and misleadingly mis-named article to its correct location == |
== Move whole of this inappropriately and misleadingly mis-named article to its correct location == |
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:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of a [[WP:RM|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. '' |
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The result of the move request was '''Rename''' to [[James Braid (surgeon)]] [[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#996600; cursor: not-allowed;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User_talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 21:03, 24 December 2009 (UTC) |
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|text = {{#ifeq:James Braid (surgeon)|{{SUBJECTPAGENAME}}|'''The request to rename this article to [[James Braid (surgeon)]] has been carried out.''' |
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Be sure to close this discussion using {{tlsx|RM top|<nowiki>'''</nowiki>page moved<nowiki>'''</nowiki>.}} and {{tlsx|RM bottom}} and remove the {{tlx|Movereq|…}} tag.|'''It has been proposed in this section that {{#ifeq:{{{multiple}}}|yes|multiple pages|[[:{{ARTICLEPAGENAME}}]]}} be [[Help:Moving a page|renamed and moved]]{{#ifeq:James Braid (surgeon)|?| somewhere else, with the name being decided below|}}.''' |
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A bot will list this discussion on [[Wikipedia:Requested moves]] within 30 minutes of this tag being placed. The discussion should be closed after 7 days; information about closing discussions is available at [[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions]]. |
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[[:James Braid (physician)]] → [[James Braid (surgeon)]] |
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Once again, I am urging that the move from the inappropriate and prochronisitic categorization takes place as planned.[[User:Lindsay658|Lindsay658]] ([[User talk:Lindsay658|talk]]) 21:25, 16 December 2009 (UTC) |
Once again, I am urging that the move from the inappropriate and prochronisitic categorization takes place as planned.[[User:Lindsay658|Lindsay658]] ([[User talk:Lindsay658|talk]]) 21:25, 16 December 2009 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[WP:RM|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div><!-- Template:RM bottom --> |
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There are very very few citations in this article. I've marked where I would like to see some. LookingGlass (talk) 13:39, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm Donald Robertson, the author of The Discovery of Hypnosis, a new edition of Braid's writings, and the only place where most of his works are published. I previously added some references to Braid's writings, published in the complete edition which someone has now anonymously removed. They've added a comment to their revisions which states: "Setting up better references that are not conected with the promotion of a commercial organization, plus other corrections and amendments." I assume what they mean is that the complete edition of Braid's writings is published by the National Council for Hypnotherapy. To set the record straight, unlike most publishing houses, this is actually a *non-profit* organisation. I therefore think it's a bit unreasonable to systematically purge any references to a book just because it's published by them.
The person who made these edits also introduced some errors into the article. For example, the article I published in IJCEH was not translated by Hilary Norris-Evans, she simply advised on minor amendments to my own translation. I'm not sure about the claim that this article was a loose translation of a German article, as far as I'm aware, it was translated into French from the English original; it's prefaced by an introduction in French by Braid himself addressed to the French Academy of Sciences and so the French translation seems to predate Preyer's German version, contrary to the comments added to the article. --HypnoSynthesis (talk) 07:46, 17 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The changes that were made were to direct readers to the sources (Braid's Neurypnology and Bramwell's Hypnotism) that were freely available on the web; and, also, sources that can have their texts searched.129.94.78.159 (talk) 04:58, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Your statement that "the whole book was made available free of charge online" is not correct; in fact it is immediately obvious, following the link that you have provided that your book is not available as what Google calls "FULL VIEW", it is only available as what Google calls "LIMITED PREVIEW — and, as a consequence, many parts of the book can not be seen (and, moreover, can not be downloaded).
Each and every one of your own-book-promoting references were changed so that they directed readers to a particular page in either Braid's Neurypnology or Bramwell's Hypnotism, two works that were not only "fully readable", but, also, "fully downloadable". Perhaps, you could consider make the entire book a "FULL VIEW" and "fully downloadable" on Google; otherwise, the references to Braid and Bramwell must stand.
Also, not commercial? [1] "This book has been published to help raise the profile of NCH by spreading its name as publisher around the net"129.94.78.159 (talk) 06:56, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hostile attitude? Over the last few days I have added a number of historically important links that allow Wiki-readers to VIEW and DOWNLOAD an extended set of universally available references made up of both journal articles and published works that are available FREE of CHARGE, with UNLIMITED ACCESS, that are pertinent to understanding Braid and his work.Lindsay658 (talk) 01:53, 22 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The result of the move request was RenametoJames Braid (surgeon) BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:03, 24 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
![]() | The request to rename this article to James Braid (surgeon) has been carried out.
Be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Movereq|…}} tag. |
James Braid (physician) → James Braid (surgeon)
In summary, any continuation of this outright, deliberate, non-veridical, and misleading misrepresentation of Braid’s true status will only contribute to the massive contemporary (in 2009) misunderstanding of this very important man and his valuable work.••• Lindsay658 (talk) 22:50, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The importance of the differences between the English physicians and Scottish surgeons in the early nineteenth century was considerable, and any retrospective conflation of the two warring factions, prior to the Medical Act of 1848 is a serious mesrepresentation of fact.
John Elliotson, F.R.S., F.R.C.P., (1791–1868), physically about as tall as Elton John, was an eminent physician, and his dalliance with mesmerism – he never used mesmerism in any legitimate medical context, only using it to display the supposed clairvoyance of the Okey sisters (who later admitted to having simulated everything), and to lead one of the Okey sisters regularly down into the wards of the London University Hospital in the dead of night, to provide Elliotson with both diagnoses and prognoses of inmates — made him the enemy of the eminent surgeon Robert Liston, F.R.C.S. (Edin) (1794–1847), physically about 2 meters tall, who was, in part, responsible for the removal of Elliotson and his theatrical (and non-medical) displays from the rooms of the university’s hospital.
Also, Thomas Wakley (1795–1862), was a surgeon. He was so strongly opposed to Elliotson that, as editor of The Lancet, he eventually banned any references to mesmerism or animal magnetism (and, thus, Braid’s neuro-hypnotism) from the pages of The Lancet.
The two disparate parties, surgeons and physicians, were only brought together, as an act of political convenience, under the single generic term of medical practitioner, by the Medical Act of 1858, with the first registrations coming into effect in January 1859.
The fact that there were these two opposing camps of surgeons and physicians had an enormous effect on things medical and, especially, on the work of Braid, and it makes the fact that he was a surgeon, persistently interested in hypnotism, something quite remarkable.
Because of the dispute, essentially generated by widespread opposition to the physician Elliotson, and his colleague physician and phrenologist William Collins Engledue, M.D. (1813–1859), Braid was unable to have any of his researches published in The Lancet.
On another track, it is also highly significant that the surgeons collectively, with Liston in the vanguard -- who were so threatened by the emerging knowledge that mesmerism could render surgical subjects insensible to pain – so quickly adopted the dangerous, life-threatening use of inhaled sulphurous ether as an anaesthetic agent, almost without any preliminary testing, simply due to the perceived threat from mesmerism.
Therefore, I argue, regardless of what the case might be for individuals living and working in the medical profession, in the United States, in the first decade of the twenty-first century might be, whether one was a physician or a surgeon (and, indeed, whether one had been trained at Edinburgh or elsewhere) was a matter of considerable social and professional significance in the first half of the nineteenth century in England.
Once again, I am urging that the move from the inappropriate and prochronisitic categorization takes place as planned.Lindsay658 (talk) 21:25, 16 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]