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The contents of the Swinford Bandog page were merged into Bandog on 26 June 2019. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.
The contents of the Bandog page were merged into Mastiff on 19 May 2020 and it now redirects there. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history.
Can someone please provide a better (sharper, perhaps a profile shot displaying the body better)? For the time being can someone also please identify the dog in the picture (name, accomplishments, owner)? by Vitaliy G13:02, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I was thinking about the history section, and I feel that it needs to be rewritten to reflect some of the issues with identifying the origin. Besides, I do not feel that the fact that dogs have evolved from wolf really can be related when discussing a dog from Midieval time period. How do you feel replacing it with the following, and working from there:
Historians have identified numerous sources from Middle England that discuss Bandogs but they are still not able to identify the exact origin. Part of the issue is that during that time there were not as many dog breeds around, or kennel registrars, instead people referred to dogs by types depending on the work that they did. For example there was no specific dog that was called a Bulldog, just about every butchers and fighting dog was referred to as a Bulldog. Since there was no breed it would be hard to identify origin or categorize the game dog that would be crossed with a Mastiff to create a Bandog.
In 1576, Dr. Caius states that, among others characteristics, the "Mastiff or Bandogge is serviceable against the fox and the badger, to drive wild and tame swine out of meadows, and pastures, to bite and take the bull by the ears, when occasion so required."
William Harrison, in his description of England during 1586, first mentions the breed in his statement, "Bandogge which is a huge dog, stubborn, uglier, eager, burthenouse of bodie, terrible and fearful to behold and often more fierce and fell than any Archadian or Corsican cur." It is assumed that the word "Bandogge" originated from the use of strong bonds and chains to secure the dogs.
The Bandogs of old were strictly working dogs, often of various crosses and various sizes. Usually these dogs were coarse-haired hunters, fighters and property protectors without a strictly set type, developed from eastern shepherds and mastiffs crossed with western Bullenbeissers and hounds, with a few local bloodlines eventually being established as specific types in some regions, such as Britain, Spain, Germany, Poland and elsewhere in Europe. One of the most famous Bandog programs in England led to the establishment of a recognized breed, the Bullmastiff.
"Most writers are of the opinion that all dogs (Canis lupus familiaris) originated from the wolf (Canis lupus); however..."
What does this mean, exactly? All modern dogs are absolutely, positively derived from wolves. That is a genetic reality, and no writer's opinion can change it. This sentence implies that bandogs are somehow unrelated to all the other dogs in the world, which is a strange assertion, to be sure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.56.115.204 (talk) 01:34, 18 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Propose merging Swinford Bandog into Bandog. The Swinford Bandog was an early, long since discontinued breeding program to recreate the Bandog, not a breed itself, and according to the article none of the dogs from this breeding program were used within subsequent Bandog breeding programs. Cavalryman V31 (talk) 09:22, 11 June 2019 (UTC).[reply]
Agreed. The Swinford Bandog article is under 8kb and receives an average of 53 visitors each day. The Bandog is under 15kb and receives an average of 280 visitors each day. Both articles have been around since 2005-06 and remain at only quality=Start class - neither of them are developing. An economy of scale is desirable. The article appears to meet WP:NOTABILITY but could form a section under the Bandog article, with the Swinford Bandog forming a redirect to it. William Harris •(talk) •12:55, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As a separate point, most of the Swinford article can be axed. The "performance-based system" that Swinford is claimed to have used is never explained in the article, apart from a dubious statement that English mastiffs were crossed with APBTs to "wakening the functional working Mastiff-type dogs by improving their stamina, drive, athletic ability, confidence and overall health." Seriously? There appears to be none of these dogs today, so one could assume that this experiment was a failure. William Harris •(talk) •13:18, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Good work! It is similar to inheriting an ancient, overgrown garden. You have to identify what to keep, then be harsh with what you must remove. It will recover with renewed vigor, given time. William Harris •(talk) •09:22, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Done. I have also removed much of the unsourced and spurious claims. Cavalryman V31 (talk) 06:25, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
