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To69.201.27.21, you may know what you mean by "arms that qualify as offensive", but it needs an explanation. How can any arms not qualify as offensive? Any weapon can be used offensively. -- Necrothesp 12:38, 28 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Necro but I wrote that when I wasn't signed in on accident. I'll try to explain it.... First, a 9mm is defined as defensive, no one attacks an enemy position with a 9mm. Second, rifles can only be used defensively, that means that a medic can't shoot first. All other weapons are considered to be offensive. You can't say you were defending yourself with a sniper rifle. And technicaly a 50cal or Mrk19 can't be used on people, only on equipment. -- Blinks
"Generally, a medic holding his/her weapon is considered to be an armed, military threat." Perhaps someone could go a bit deeper into this issue. When a medic is forced to defend himself (or his care), does he lose his legal protection? Can someone cause a medic to lose his legal protection by provoking him to draw a weapon?
The Geneva Convention defines what is offensive and defensive, as well as what they can be used on and who they can be used by.
The Geneva Convention only says that a medic has specific protections as long as they don't go outside the parameters defined by the Conventions. The medic can freely choose to fire first, use a crew served weapon, and not have to worry about any violations besides the ones that apply to his fellow soldiers. The medic merely loses his Geneva status and is treated like his fellow soldiers when he makes this decision.
The 9mm pistol is generally given to medics not because it's a 'defensive weapon', but because it can easily be used with one hand if the medic must maintain pressure on a wound or perform some other medical procedure that cannot be interrupted without destabilizing the patient further. Rifles have probably been used more offensively than any other weapon since gunpowder was first used in war. Medics are given rifles so they have similar training and armaments to the line units they may be assigned to. The rumor of the 'ma deuce' and the MK-19 only being able to be used on equipment would ban their use in the Afghan and Iraqi conflicts. Machine guns have always been understood to have been designed primarily as an anti-personnel weapon that can also take out light vehicles and aircraft. As long as the weapon is not designed to cause 'undue suffering', it can be fired on an enemy combatant. 72.198.72.14 (talk) 08:43, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps someone should change "Nazi" to "German". Not all Germans were Nazis, and this is supposed to be a neutral point-of-view encyclopedia. How much they get paid? please research and post as soon as possible.
I think the statement regarding Soviet forces being ordered to target equpment with the red cross needs some sort of attribution or citation. otherwise it just seems like a unsubstanietated claim about the red menace.Mike McGregor (Can) 22:30, 21 February 2006 (UTC) the statement about the japanese targeting medics could probably also benifit from some backing up. Mike McGregor (Can) 22:37, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
(lol). The japanese statement is true. I looked it up in my big book on WWII (The World at Arms).
Which current armed forces equip medics with submachine guns? --Scottie theNerd 05:09, 26 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Removed web address for a clotting agent as it seemed to be more of an advert (69.3.223.166 (talk) 07:40, 25 March 2009 (UTC))[reply]
This is a bad picture for the article because it does not have clear insignia. St.isaac 23:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"Generally, a medic holding his/her weapon is considered to be an armed, military threat." Perhaps someone could go a bit deeper into this issue. When a medic is forced to defend himself (or his care), does he lose his legal protection? Can someone cause a medic to lose his legal protection by provoking him to draw a weapon? 22 August 2006
A medic is authorized to use a personal weapon to defend himself and his patients. Personal defense weapons in the US are basically the M9 and M-16 variants. Something like the M249 SAW, or crew served weapons are "offensive." That being said, a .50 cal weapon cannot legally be used against personnel, just equipment. Weapons and uniforms are equipment though... Seem vague? I think so too.
Most Whiskey's are not trained to fire any weapon with a higher caliber than a 7.62mm weapon. We are supposed to only return fire to protect ourselves and our patients. Any soldier that is capable of returning fire should do so and usually will. In the current war situation, the enemy has been known to target a medical vehicle knowing that we are lightly armed and have no 50 cal. on board. The new enemy has no regard for the Geneva Convention and usually does not honor it.--Texdoc41 (talk) 19:08, 17 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'd disagree with the notion that medics are trained not to fire back. I spent my first 8 years as a 68W (and 91W for that matter) in an Infantry Brigade Combat Team. My training from Basic in 2004 to Bagram in 2012 was to ensure fire superiority and either slap on a tourniquet or at least make sure the wounded soldier was putting it on themselves. The reasoning behind this was that taking an additional rifle out of the fight increased the likelihood that the enemy would injure or kill another soldier which would degrade the situation even further. Additionally, you're not going to be doing any major medical treatment while under fire without exposing yourself. Helping to fight the enemy allows a medic to more quickly reach the point where either the enemy retreats or his element can get to an area where we can do more in depth treatment. 72.198.72.14 (talk) 07:51, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My neighbor, an Army seargent, claims that they're doing away with medics in the combat field. Soldiers are instructed to ask a wounded soldier "You OK?", and if the guy says "Yes", then the other soldier continues to shoot while instructing the wounded guy to put on first aid. COuld somebody help verify this so we can add it to this article? Thanks. --Bwefler 12:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This right here is ludacris..... I don't who you spoke to but that is so wrong. I'm a medic in the army and we aren't going anywhere. ---Blinks
That's only partially true. The US Army is incorporating a strategy of TC3, or Tactical Combat Casualty Care. It's a three part system. Part 1) Shoot, gain tactical fire superiority. 2) Do only care that prevents death, ie tourniquet or breathing tube. Part 3) More involved care.
Basically, if the situation permits the medic will spend time on the patient to correct the issue, but if the patient can do something on his own, the medic can still fire down range in that effort to gain fire superiority. -SoldierMedic —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.144.134.2 (talk) 23:27, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The TC3 protocol actually applies to Combat Lifesavers rather than Combat Medics (i.e. 68W) Combat Lifesavers are soldiers with a nonmedical primary MOS, they are less equipped and only go through three to four days of medical training. Their primary mission is to continue to engage the enemy and later perform medical duties. Combat Medics have a primary duty to assist wounded soldiers. Also phase 1 of TC3 is engaging the enemy and applying a tourniquet. Phase 2 involves all other medical procedures. Phase 3 is the MEDEVAC/ CASEVAC of wounded soldiers although the phases of TC3 do not have to be performed in numerical order based on mission allowances.I work for a defense contractor teaching CLS. 24.28.160.54 (talk) 08:11, 7 December 2008 (UTC)Jon[reply]
Hi my name is LaShelle. I'm 17 yrs old and a senior. I was doing a research project and came across this. I'm thinkin about becoming a combat medic and would like to know some more about it. If any of ou can let me know what experiences I would have or what exactly I'd be doing, that'd be great! Thanks~!~ October 02, 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.107.113.74 (talk) 18:18, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What do you want to know? I love being a medic. My soldiers love me, mainly because I dispense medications and I am the one that takes care of them when they are hurt, so they take care of me. But it isn't all great. My aidbag is about 45 lbs, so that's 45lbs more you will have to carry than anybody else. But that is the only drawback. -SoldierMedic-
I can also help you with any information you may want about being a medic. I've been on three combat rotations and love my job. As SoldierMedic said they are one or two draw backs but mostly perks and it takes a certain personality to stay in this field.----Blinks
Christopher Speer is described as "leading a squad assigned the task of going through the ruins, looking for weapons, and evidence of terrorism", and also as "a medic in an American special forces unit". In my ignorance, this use of medic seems possibly at odds with the picture painted in Combat medic article. Comments? SmithBlue 10:05, 31 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe we could have some comparisons of various medics to civilian occupations - EMT, Paramedic etc. - 121.208.89.95 (talk) 08:34, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In the 68W article it lists the specific skill identifiers for American Combat Medics. I believe that all American combat medics are required to be NREMT-B certified. There are also identifiers for flight medic(F6) which might cross over to Certified Flight Paramedic (FP-C) but I'm not sure. Combat medics can also be civilian licensed LPN's with an identifier of M6. I would stress however that care should be exercised when comparing them so that people do not get the idea that they are interchangeable. After I graduated from nursing school I wished to maintain my old MOS and therefore though I was civilian licensed nurse in my reserve unit I could not perform any medic duties. However due to increased pressure many more of the Army medical programs are requiring civilian certification so those things would carry over to the civilian world. 24.28.160.54 (talk) 21:55, 1 January 2009 (UTC) Jon[reply]
If you look at the job description of a 68W and a Tactical Paramedic, you will see they are basically the same job. I am advocating for the use of former 68W with current certification to be crossed over into such civilian placements.Texdoc41 (talk) 03:41, 11 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that the Military Occupational Specialty for US Army medics changed from 91W to 68W in October 2006, not December 2005. The official title used in the US Army is Healthcare Specialist, though this is identical to calling a Navy Corpsman a 'Hospital Corpsman'. I'll change the month/year once I find verifiable sources and figure out how to do footnotes if there are no objections (I am a 68W so I may need help with POV). Shifty-Mo (talk) 20:08, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The MOS tag did change as of 1 October 2006. All 91W were to given a time frame to complete the requirements for the new identifier. If they did not complete the training they were required to reclass into a new MOSTexdoc41 (talk) 19:08, 12 November 2009 (UTC)--Texdoc41 (talk) 19:08, 12 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I added a confusing tag. I believe the third paragraph here contradicts the first two. The third paragraph is about non-combatant medics. It begins:
In most armies, medics wear specific insignia, with a prominent Red Cross on a white background. Islamic countries use a red crescent instead while Israeli medics wear the Magen David Adom (a red star of David on a white background).
The simplest fix would be to simply remove the third paragraph.
Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 02:12, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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"...the personnel of the unit or establishment are armed, and that they use the arms in their own defence, or in that of the wounded and sick in their charge..."
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In theory, medics are considered to be given the Geneva coverage applied to medical personnel. In practice, any line medic is going to willingly disregard these protections because they will not be given to him by today's enemy and he is more effective returning fire even (or especially) if he has no patient to protect. Remember that the Geneva Conventions stipulate that the protections are theirs to lose based on their choices on the battlefield. Medics do not break any treaties by attacking the enemy, they merely void protections that most likely wouldn't be wouldn't be honored. We take part in offensive operations, we train with and fire crew served weapons if needed, and we'll do this whether a soldier is injured or not. 72.198.72.14 (talk) 08:14, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
References
There are many references to "stretcher bearer" (or "stretcher-bearer", which I'm not convinced is correct usage!) within WP articles, but it is not obvious where to point a redirect. (Currently, two pages point to stretcher bearer, and two to stretcher-bearer. Many other potential links exist within article text.)
What were the functions of a stretcher bearer (beyond the obvious!)? Were they given any medical training? (etc). I think this is a hole in WP's coverage related to 'combat medic'.
EdJogg (talk) 11:18, 9 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The text in the wiki article is under Modern Day where it states how because enemies faced today do not recognise the Geneva Convention, medics are indistinguishable from regular troops. I do not have sources on me, but have heard from various places that snipers were on the increase and medics and chaplains were being targeted in Afghanistan due to the effect on morale if one of them took a hit or died. If any of that is true, then the reason for medical personnel not being instantly identifiable is because they are more attractive targets, not that they become normal soldiers. The wiki article on Sniper states as much, and has two references for that, but unfortunately Wikipedia is in the unique position of being able to create as well as process, collate and distribute information. Wiki cites a reference, the main hits in Google become those references, every other article either cites Wiki or those references. Art imitating life imitating art. It warrants changing in my humble opinion but I currently lack time, is it better to remove the paragraph or leave it there till appropriate sources are found? 124.170.22.217 (talk) 12:40, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
dear sir. just to rectify you on your statement re combat medic being also clasified as a medic. there is a big differance in a medic and a oprational medic.i am in the front line,busy with a contact. bullits all over,casualty in progress.you call a casavac in and 4 if need be steps to do for keeping the wounded alive. there is no tea party for that.its in and out,all arranged,the show must go on. now a medic is operating in a sickbay,hospital,clinic, its a nother life my friend,pampering the survived,no stress.nice life, how can you compaire the two factors.just for you to know, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.223.119.129 (talk) 20:49, 20 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You compare it like this. In the Army there is no medic and operational medic, there's Healthcare Specialist. Your current duty station might have you on patrols, but your next PCS might have you in one of those clinics living the nice life. As you move up in rank, the chances of being in a clinic get higher because the knowledge you have accumulated goes far beyond what you learned in AIT. Years of lifting patients, litters, and your aid bag also speed along the process. It's still all covered in the same job however. 72.198.72.14 (talk) 08:26, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This book might be relevant for expanding the article, or adding history sections in WWII articles: Tracy Shilcutt , Infantry Combat Medics in Europe, 1944-45 , Palgrave Macmillan May 2013. DOI: 10.1057/9781137347695 Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 07:38, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The section "Modern day" only discusses the American forces and an American POV.
There is also lots of OR in it. For example "However, the enemies faced by professional armies in more recent conflicts are often insurgents who either do not recognize the Geneva Convention, or do not care, and readily engage all personnel, irrespective of non-combatant status." So the Japanese in World War II (who it is true were not insurgents), recognised the Geneva Conventions and did not engage in the brutal killing of any medical personnel or patients they could lay their hand on? So this is not a new situation. The us or non use of symbols is optional and just because the US have not use such identification in some war does not mean that they have abandoned the practice for all conflicts.
As to globalisation:
-- PBS (talk) 13:17, 8 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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Changed EMT in the introduction to EMT-B. EMT-B is currently the minimum equivalent level tested for in the military by Combat Medics. EMT-A, EMT-I, and EMT-P must be tested for after advanced training. Each EMT certification level is tested separately outside of the respective branch that Combat Medic belongs to. No branch of the Military is known to provide these certifications; they are provided by the NREMT (National Registry of Emergency Medical Technicians). State certifications are an additional qualifier to consider. This was important to change because it leads to misinformation and gives recruits researching the topic an unclear idea of what specific certifications they will have. You can test for and challenge EMT-B certification after advanced training in one of the respective branches, but EMT-P, EMT-A, or EMT-I will take additional training past basic/advanced. I believe a continued education section would benefit this article/entry. Each branch of the U.S. Military (with its own Medics) has distinctive education benefits that could be contrasted and compared. A redirect to the U.S. Army, U.S. Navy, U.S. Air Force, and U.S. Coast Guard* (Coast Guard is DHS not DoD [Department of Homeland Securty not Department of Defense]*. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ubersuperman (talk • contribs) 12:22, 30 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The current version of this article is highly misleading. The following passage, for instance, implies that US field medics can choose whether or not to wear a Red Cross. This section is unreferenced, and, I believe, wildly incorrect.
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Non-combatant medics are entitled to carry sidearms. This is permissible under the Geneva Conventions. However, their weapons are supposed to be reserved for defending themselves, and their patients, from rogue elements. Dangerous civilian looters, or dangerous deserters, former soldiers, who are no longer lawful combatants, because they have rejected their chain of command.
If a genuine non-combatant medic is treating wounded who are too wounded to engage in combat, and all the able-bodied soldiers are off somewhere else, and a squad of enemies approaches, he or she is not supposed to reach for their weapon, or otherwise fight back. If the enemy also observes the Geneva Convention, the medic's patients are not supposed to require defense, because the enemy has an obligation to take prisoner wounded soldiers, and make sure they are (1) given medical care; (2) fed; (3) evacuated to a rear area where they can be safely interned.
If the enemy does not observe the Geneva Conventions there is no point wearing a Red Cross.
I have tried to determine when the USA stopped sending non-combatant medics to the front lines. Near as I can determine this predates the War in Vietnam.
In the 19th century, and earlier, armies were routinely followed by "camp followers". Wives, and, well, whores, and also merchants who would fence loot soldiers acquired, on the battlefield, and elsewhere. When a battle took place the less reputable camp followers would wait on the sidelines. When the fighting moved on to some other part of the battlefield, leaving dead, wounded, and discared or damaged but still valuable equipment, they'd descend on the inactive area. They'd loot dead bodies. Individuals too wounded to fight back could face not only having their pockets picked, but having their gold teeth yanked out. If they tried to resist the looters would kill them.
Non-combatant medics carry weapons to fight off looters. Individuals who are wearing a Red Cross, indicating they are non-combatants, who subsequently engage in combat, fire upon enemy soldiers, are not engaging in "questionable ethics". They are committing a serious war crime.
If the topic of this article is US soldiers classified as "combat medics" then the lead sentence should clearly state they are combatants, who do not qualify for the protections the Geneva Conventions extend to non-combatant medical personnel. Geo Swan (talk) 21:17, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Combat Medics are a part of every country's army, however the article (which includes examples from other countries) describes the specialty as part of the US Army. This is very restrictive. Why does the article open in that way? TynoPk (talk) 12:58, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]