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How should the article be structured? Currently it's a mess with random examples of machinima through into the article in roughly chronological order. Any suggestions on how to break this into sections? Or may be someone can be cool enough to just do it? :)
=====> Since the evolution of machinima was a relatively linear process (mostly starting with Stunt Island), and it basically is still in its infancy, tracing its development chronologically is probably best. Perhaps breaking it up by year may be effective, but establishing the major milestones chronologically really does help outline the progression.
Paranoid 22:14, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Microsoft doesnt offically support Red Vs Blue. Does it?
Yes Microsoft had a deal with Red vs Blue to support Halo and the Xbox. -- Psi edit
I tried to help. "Notable examples" fits well with notable production companies, and examples are usually found at the end of the article. The other sections still need work. MaxVeers 20:46, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I was thinking Halo Machinima should get its own article since if you look around the internet you can find lots of it. -- Psi edit
I just created Template:Infobox Machinima, adapted from the television infobox. Use it in articles for machinima productions. I've adapted Red vs Blue and The Strangerhood thus far.--DooMDrat 05:57, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
Can people review external links added? This is not a link depository. Just because someone made some 'OMG MATRICKS!!!1!" film in some MMORPG doesn't mean it belongs.--DooMDrat 08:59, August 14, 2005 (UTC)
I'm going to suggest a few links here - currently the links section seems pretty old to me. I'll add them in a few days if I don't get any "aargh, no" comments:
- All of this from Hugh Hancock
The section for Quake seems amazingly scant, only mentioning speed runs. But from memory, Quake was where machinima really took off, with Eschaton: Darkening Twilight generating a lot of buzz within the community. It was made by Strange Company, the guys behind www.machinima.com. Anyway, I think more should be made of them, I mean, they even had Roger Ebert comment on one of their projects. - Hahnchen 03:01, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
If you'd like, I can expand the various info pages for Strange Company - I'm sure other people will cheerfully tear out any points where I tip over into self-promotion - Hugh Hancock —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.46.237.228 (talk) 13:08, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
I'll hack this stuff in. An obvious early addition would be the mention of BloodSpell under a new section on NWN Machinima (which should probably also include Neverending Nights, which is getting on for being the second longest-running Machinima series ever). Might take a few days, or more, but I'll get around to it. - Hugh Hancock —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.46.237.228 (talk) 10:49, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I've just added a couple of those details in. I'm afraid I'm clueless on how to add references, but all the press references I mention can be found on the BloodSpell press page (which is woefully out of date and I really should update!) - Hugh Hancock —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.46.237.228 (talk) 11:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I think that this is a bit of a proof by lack of counter-assertion. I don't imagine that it's listed as such anywhere, but I can't think of a longer-running series other than RvB off the top of my head. If you like, I'll do a search on that using my sources, and if I can't come up with an older still-running series, I'll go on the record as saying it's the second longest-running. Would that work, given I am probably a credible authority for this? - Hugh Hancock —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.46.237.228 (talk) 13:35, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't want to collectively badmouth everyone here, but I nominated it for the CVG Improvement drive as you can see above. I'm not sure how dead or alive that collaboration is, but hopefully a few more people will see this article. Anyway, I think this article could be greatly improved, but I personally won't be doing too much because I'm writing up various articles on FPS games. Anyway, here's a few points.
Anyway, there's enough ideas there to improve the article, happy editing. - Hahnchen 14:14, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
I removed the massive amount of external links from the article a while ago. I took a look in the Machinima category last night, to see a number of articles have been added for various productions, some of which haven't been released yet. It seems highly likely that they were added by the creators. I'll nominate the articles for deletion as I see fit.--Drat (Talk)
I guess I'm one of the "pet project" pushers. But I object to the stripping of ALL external links from the entry. If there are no examples cited, how is anyone supposed to get an idea of the breadth of machinima productions? The List of machinima series page is a step in the right direction, but like the Machinima page's focus on specific game engines, is very limiting. Today I added a "Notable Examples by genre" section and inserted Abstract Machinima, which was previous entirely unrepresented on this page. I also stuck some external links in there, which is way better than nothing. Feel free to reorganize and repurpose, of course.--Reign of Toads 21:41, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Added a short section & a few links on City of Heroes machinima & some examples thereof.
This article os too bland, it needs some images, maybe some screencaps from popular Machinima.
Several others and I have been working on getting Red vs Blue to featured article quality. Please check the page, and leave any feedback on how we may further improve it on Wikipedia:Peer review/Red vs Blue/archive1.--Drat (Talk) 08:07, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
In case anyone likes userboxes, I've created {{user machinima}}, which automatically categorizes you under Category:Wikipedians interested in machinima. — TKD::Talk 09:29, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Is there a better source for the "many" comment other than a forum? Per Wikipedia's guidelines on reliable sources, bulletin boards and forums generally aren't considered reliable sources because there is no way to verify who actually wrote the information. — TKD::Talk 02:04, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Just out of curiosity, would anyone be interested in helping to form a WikiProject Machinima? The purpose of the project would be to foster the improvement, expansion, and maintenance of machinima-related articles on Wikipedia. While getting Red vs Blue up to featured status is a great accomplishment, there's a lot more that could theoretically be done for other articles. If you take a look at Category:Machinima, you'll see that there's a fair amount of ground to cover, even for what most would consider a "niche" topic, and I think that, if we have enough interested people, it'd be beneficial to have a WikiProject to facilitate collaboration.
By the way, in case anyone's interested, I've written up some tentative thoughts based on my experiences working on the Red vs Blue articles: User:TKD/Writing about machinima.--—The preceding unsigned comment was added by TKD (talk • contribs) .
I'm starting to think about what we need to do to push this to GA/FA status. Reading this over, there's too much focus on modern examples of machinima and not enuough coverage on techniques. Ideally, the examples should be interspersed with more context within the bigger picture. Here's what I propose as an outline:
Thoughts? — TKD::Talk 08:42, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Is gmod another thing used in HL2 machinima? Flashn00b 23:14, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Maybe this is of use for the article? —msikma <user_talk:msikma> 15:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Im suprised that GWfilms famous Militia machinima wasn't mentioned a single time in this article...
Militia2 generated lots of user attention towards the potential of machinima... as well as winning several awards too...—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.169.92.20 (talk • contribs)
For what it's worth, a company called Slippery Slug advertised a program for the BBC Micro called Movie Maker in the May 1986 edition of Acorn User magazine. Possibly one of the earliest examples of Machinima software? Alf Boggis 20:27, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Also 3D Movie Maker from Microsoft (huge fanbase for 3DMM) and MediaStage from Immersive Education. Also Alice 3D, a free program which will allow far more control using Sims 2 characters.
WHy is it everytiem I make a space for teh Metal Gear Onlien Machinimas it is deleted? I think they should be added also. Especially a mentioning of FOX Chronicles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GamerSam (talk • contribs) 00:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC).
The game engine of Warcraft III has been used to produce many machinemas, but they were mostly in the game's custom map format rather than independantly watchable video files, so I don't know if awareness of these productions is wide enough outside the warcraft community to warrant it's mention in this article, so I'm writing this question here for further discussion. Blizzard entertainment, the creators of the game, did sponsor a Warcraft III cinematic contest a bit over a year ago, although that may not be a wide enough reckognition either, since the contest wasn't sponsored by a third party. 195.210.220.81 18:24, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Two things:
1) The first paragraph has redundant information. It first states that "machinima...is both a collection of associated production techniques and a film genre defined by those techniques," and then ends the paragraph with, "as a film genre, the term refers to movies created by the techniques described above." The information is redundant and one of these should probably be excised.
2) Or maybe both. It seems pretty debatable that machinima should be counted as genre. There is nothing inherent in the production of machinima that can limit the kinds of stories it can tell. It doesn't seem to be any more an example of film genre than live action is a film genre. -- The Dane 01:06, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, i was just wondering why, movies Such as Tales of the Past, and Tales of the past II havent been added to the notable section of this article, Seeing as Their Author recieved a spot on a Danish Television channel for the work he did on the movies. Also on WarcraftMovies.com over 186,000 people ahve downloaded this video. Kage4hm 08:55, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Earlier today I was trolling through WoWWiki.com and found a page with several Notable links which i believe would make Tales of the Past worth mentioning in this article, For example, The creator of the series was Given an interview about his work for it on a Denmark Television program, and Tales of the Past 2 was also mentioned in a Danish Newspaper, both of these are credible recources and i believe meet the requirments you desire. 71.110.91.36
Here is a link to the Tales of the Past page on WoWWIki, at the bottom of the page there are the 2 links that I mentioned above, they have been included in the website for notability, i cannot translate them but they are deffinatly Tales of the Past related. [1] 71.110.91.36
I think that all the machinima articles should have a web site address so that people can view what the story is about and decide if they like it, so they don't only have to go for our word on it. Although, I do believe that only the people who write the articles should be allowed to post the addresses and only one address should be placed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Terrortree (talk • contribs) 19:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC).
I hope no one minds, but I added the Star Wars Battlefront II machinima "A Clone Apart" to the list of Machinima's. It is really funny and I believe it deserves a chance to be noticed. If anyone has any objections please post them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Terrortree (talk • contribs) 19:29, 6 March 2007 (UTC).
I now understand why I shouldn't put it down because of how funny it is (sorry if I insulted anyone but Im new) but I don't understand why we can't put "a clone apart" down, what's wrong with it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Terrortree (talk • contribs) 19:14, 7 March 2007 (UTC).
Okay, I understand now, so if became more popular and had more than... 3 episodes then it could be a viable option?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.93.111.229 (talk • contribs)
Yes—Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.93.111.229 (talk • contribs)
Well, there's now no need to put it up, it got canceled - Terrortree
"The demos that receive attention among machinima enthusiasts tend to be storydemos, or ones that focus on consistent narrative rather than pure "eye-candy". IX and Halla by Moppi Productions are notable demos in this category."
Why are these examples notable demos in this category? I haven't seen them, so I can't correct it, so could someone else do it? Its in the section "Demoscene demos as machinima". Thanks, Talk User:Fissionfox 12:20, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Today, most proprietary game engines are commonly used to create many machinima. These engines are not the only ones, but the open source engines such as Ogre3D, Crystal Space, and others are used to create more of them, collectively known as open source machinima. Can anyone verify this? --Bryan Seecrets 09:27, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
It's past 30K. Getting a bit long. Anything we can do to shorten it? RJFJR 18:02, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
9/03/07: Added a series known as "Dude, Where's my Mount?" to the list of Notable World of Warcraft Machinima. As to notability: Over 1.5 million hits across the series and making of on youtube, including over 15,000 in the first three days of episode three.
Honors recieved from youtube.com, machinima.com. Countless posts from people not involved in filmmaking at worldofwarcraft.com, machinima.com, machinima101.com. References made to the series from rvb.roosterteeth.com, home of Red vs. Blue, which is arguably the best known machinima on the internet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.164.143.64 (talk) 06:20, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
The existing information that the word is a portmanteau of "machine" and "cinema" is correct. It may also be of interest to note that it is an accidental mutation of a conscious neologism. I just wrote an account [2] of the origins of the term, including quotes from relevant e-mail. (A few years back I would have edited something into the Wikipedia article myself, but things look a little more formal nowadays and I'm worried about the exact rules for citation, and the fact that the article is already large.) --Anthony Bailey 80.229.18.75 21:14, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Should songvids be mentioned in the context of Machinima? I get the impression they're one of the most prolific amateur forms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.154.238.36 (talk) 03:10, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
After some thought, I decided to recast the sprawling examples section as a list for now. I've also cut several unsourced generalizations for now; anything that can be sourced should be added back in. My philosophy is that it's easier and safer to work from sources to add information, not to try to find sources for existing text (in fact, when I wrote the first couple sections of the article, I only used very little of what was there before). The items in the list should eventually be dispersed to appropriate places in the running text (don't worry, we still need to write a whole sections on production techniques, so there will be opportunities to mention the more prevalent engines) or perhaps integrated into list of machinima productions.
Another reason for doing this was that, after discussing things with Drat, another editor of machinima-related articles, we agreed that there are just too many machinima-capable game engines out there nowadays for a prose list by game engine to be viable long-term in this top-level article on machinima. This might've worked a few years ago, but it won't in 2007, not with the proliferation of machinima. Instead, we should try to focus on other ways of organizing notable productions. I've started by listing genres from the Kelland/Morris/Lloyd book. In more general terms, it's a sign of deficient article organization if there are many subsections with one or two paragraphs, as was the case here. It's also generally bad for a section to have 15 paragraphs.
Those who know me know that I don't like long bulleted lists. Short-term, though, I do think that it's at least a marginally better way to present productions not covered elsewhere for now, until we can expand list of machinima productions or incorporate the information elsewhere in the article on a case-by-case basis. I also prefer it in that it somewhat de-emphasizes that this article isn't really meant to be a long list by game engine (by contrast, previously the list probably took up half of the article), but instead a broad overview of the various topics surrounding machinima in general. — TKD::Talk 05:29, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
I should also note that I took the liberty of removing productions that were already mentioned in the running text, and one or two productions that I don't think have third-party reliable coverage. If you can find a good non-trivial third-party source for Potentior (which looks interesting, but WP:ILIKEIT doesn't satisfy verifiability and neutral point of view), please do re-add it. Also, I did remove some analysis. In general I don't doubt that it has a sound basis, but on Wikipedia we need a reliable source that directly and specifically provides that analysis. — TKD::Talk 05:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
What is the legal status of the videos?--Playstationdude (talk) 02:09, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
I hope you people that work on Wiki can see this request. I would like a list filled with Machinimas. Here is a requested list.
Red Vs blue Spriggs Civil Protection P.A.N.I.C. The Naighberhood
And so on..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.233.247.10 (talk) 17:59, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language is very relevant for multimedia and machinima subtitling and language translation.
Check this explanation:
http://collaborative-translation.ning.com/group/subtitling/forum/topic/show?id=2237585%3ATopic%3A1605 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.51.137.243 (talk) 05:42, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
I know i sound like a fan boy but shouldn't digital ph33r be included somewhere in the article. It doesnt have to be a large amount but something considering that his use of machinima has made machinima very mainstream —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leemyster (talk • contribs) 14:54, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
could RuneScape movies be considered? over half of RS's community (pretty large, considering its the most popular browser MMO in the world) are also deeply invovled in RS Vids, allthough I wouldnt consider the thousands of Music VIdeos (RSMVs) part of it, many many RuneScapers make their own Machinima with RS (the IM feature with the words appearing over a characters head helps), and TehNoobShow has a large following with his popular comedy series, in fact, he sums up the whole phenomenon with his RSMV, "RuneScape Idiot". In closing, RuneScape vids should be considered. (last time I checked, there was way more RS Vids then there was World of Warcraft) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.224.25.70 (talk) 01:14, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
As someone who's been watching Garry's Mod Machinima, I also think the ICTON team needs a mention in Machinima, I would also would say that to Jaanus Syndicate but JS isn't really popular, but with Djy1991 with 40,000 subscribers( Since I last checked) I think ICTON should have a fair mention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.78.82.79 (talk) 22:34, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Something needs to be done about this list. It should be for games that are commonly used, particularly in notable productions, not every game that is used. People keep adding games that they clearly personally use in their ludicrously non-notable shows. For example, the Smash Brothers games, of which the most notable example they seem to be able to cite is Smashtasm, which has not (as far as I can tell through searching), been covered non-trivially if at all by reliable independent sources.--Drat (Talk) 06:05, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Some serious trimming needs to happen to cut the useless information. Everything ever produced doesn't need to get mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.7.199 (talk) 14:00, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Just noting, for future references, some possible new sources to use:
— TKD::Talk 10:18, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
WP:EL states that a directory link may be appropriate. Currently we use the ODP directory. What do people think about using Machinima Premiere's directory instead? Unlike the ODP, it includes the three other external links that we currently list, appears to be more comprehensive, and is more suited to specialist and engine-specific knowledge. Because of these considerations, we can simply link to that one directory only, and tell people to get their links added there, not here, minimizing, and probably altogether eliminating, need for discussing any new links. Thoughts? — TKD::{talk} 17:43, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
"Originally, the rules created confusion; one machinima group, Edgeworks Entertainment, incorrectly interpreted them as a reduction of machinima creators' rights". From what I have been told and read(I can find a link), the Microsoft Rules did limit rights. Without the ability to make DVDs this group in particular stopped creating Machinima and selling their DVDs. Microsoft also has been reportingly ignoring emails and/or any business idea for Machinima creation for a licensing. Thanks, --66.169.200.163 (talk) 03:00, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Here's how the cited source explains the situation:
Mind you, this is from an article in the Harvard Journal of Law and Technology, so we're dealing with a high-quality source. As for "reportingly ignoring emails", we would definitely need a third-party reliable source (i.e., neither Microsoft nor the complainant) for that. — TKD::{talk} 07:18, 10 April 2009 (UTC)Some machinimists did not understand that the Microsoft Rules benefited them; they did not realize that the Microsoft Rules did not (and, as a unilateral license, legally could not) reduce any preexisting rights, but instead expanded machinimists' rights by explicitly allowing limited uses of Microsoft's intellectual property.
This is professional stuff. Congratulations. Tony (talk) 13:50, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
Couldn't we cut off all the black in the first picture? DavidHøstbo (talk) 18:23, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
Style is very subjective, and I find dogmatic grammar and style rules annoying. Common conventions, however, make for easier reading and comprehension.
In the section Limitations and solutions
"It may be possible to point the camera elsewhere or employ other creative cinematography or acting.[86] For example, Tristan Pope combined creative character and camera positioning with video editing to suggest sexual actions in his controversial film Not Just Another Love Story.[87]"
may read better as
"Tristan Pope worked around limited expression by creative character and camera positioning to suggest sexual actions in his controversial film Not Just Another Love Story[87]. Creative camera work, cinematography, and acting may address many such limitations[86]"
That the film was controversial may be interesting but not strictly neccessary in this sentence under this heading.
If this paragraph started with something like
"Limited character motion and expression is a difficult problem for current (April 2010) machinima creators."
then some of the phrases in the paragraph (like Another solution) may be unneccesary.
196.23.21.91 (talk) 03:20, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Machinima.com is a massive hub and viewing center for machinima, why is not listed in the article or external links? 129.96.126.4 (talk) 04:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
No one seems to want to update the external links. I'll attempt to remove the mprem link which now goes to a SEDO landing page. I suggest adding links to other sources that would help users like Koinup, GamersTube, and Machinination. Users finding this article get little help out of the external links section at the present time, the above links would help them find places to host and discuss machinima. Etownunder (talk) 17:22, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure the machinima can be made out of anything; therefore, it doesn't have to be 3D as the article suggests.
Phlum (talk) 11:32, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
The "External links" section was pretty bad, and, given that this is a GA, I decided to nuke it and start from scratch with just the Open Directory Project link. (I put the bibliographies in the to-do section; they seem more appropriate there.) It's a shame that Machinima Premiere seems to be dead, because that was a useful directory. Does anyone know of any other good, neutral, WP:EL-conformant machinima link directory to use?
By the way, I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't be linking to engine-specific sites, because that's a slippery slope of "why this engine and not this other one?" There's just too many engines for that to be tenable these days. —TKD [talk][c] 19:17, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
I don't understand the first sentence of this article, particularly the use of the verb 'enlighten'. Is this some sort of jargon? It just seems like poor English to me. --2.105.139.62 (talk) 19:53, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
I've noticed the article is completely devoid of any discussion of the legal issues in machinima? I know there is significant disagreement among scholars on some of the finer points, but shouldn't it at least be brought up? To the same end, what about the new Microsoft and Blizzard machinima rules? The most up to date analysis I've seen on Microsoft's is at [3], and Blizard's are discussed [4]. Any thoughts on inclusion? I figured it would go into the legal section as two subsections, unless "Machinima Legal Issues" is an article-caliber topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.54.171.220 (talk) 21:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
The way it's written now, it seems a bit biased towards the gaming industries. Any thoughts about it?93.125.198.182 (talk) 17:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
Is Garry's mod mentioned in here? Because using Garry's mod is a great machimation tool, and many good video's have been made in it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.17.221.246 (talk) 07:30, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
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I recently came across Category:Machinima by year, a category containing only six years, and I can't help but feel that the most important content in these pages is already in the machinima series that have articles, and otherwise should belong here. Machinima isn't film, so I don't think it really merits these kinds of articles, especially since the actual page content is very sparse. Details would be better served improving coverage of the spread of machinima in this article. Thoughts? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 15:40, 20 January 2020 (UTC)