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Talk:Marge vs. the Monorail

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	Marge vs. the Monorail has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassessit.
	Marge vs. the Monorail is part of the The Simpsons (season 4) series, a good topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.
Article milestones Date Process Result February 21, 2007 Good article nominee Listed November 27, 2008 Good topic candidate Promoted
Current status: Good article

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When Smithers and Mr. Burns leave the town meeting in a hurry, it's an homage to the scene in Tim Burton's Batman where Michael Keaton saves Kim Basinger, right? Just thought that should be added to the article. 2602:30A:2EDF:19B0:F5EE:ACF2:E00E:1A2 (talk) 19:12, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In the first season of Supernatural (TV Series) in the episode Something Wicked, the character Dean gives a list of towns that have been terrorized by a Shtriga. I am not devoted to the Simpsons enough to know for sure, but I believe the list was a reference to the list of towns who have built monorails in Marge vs. the Monorail. One of the towns mentioned is "West Haverbrook." Can anyone confirm or deny this? Andrewdoane 12:44, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

interesting idea, but I can't add anything to that unfortunately Oreo man 16:05, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the town mentioned in this episode is "North Haverbrook", so it could be a reference. Writers do enjoy that sort of thing.

They mention Ogdenville, Brockway and North Haverbrook.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 21:46, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

is this a satire of the las vegas/Bombardier monorail fiasco?

No, it came earlier, just a satire against transit hucksters and gullible townsfolk. dml 14:00, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Notice how in the Trivia it tells of a picture of the Hindenburg? Well... right next to the Hindenburg behind a couple dancing you can see a picture of the WTC burning. Normally this would seem ireelevent to me, but the episode is from 1994 and the WTC fell in 2001. I must say, this is the scariest thing I've ever seen on the Simpsons.

I don't think the picture is of the WTC. I think its just a random building on fire. -- Scorpion 17:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pretty sure it was from the WTC bombing earlier that year (1993) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:6000:C184:AE00:1446:1176:E252:4F3F (talk) 19:28, 13 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Has anyone noticed that during the opening of the monorail, when Kent Brockman is talking to celebrities and 'Kyle Darin' walks by. You can see what looks to be a.. I don't want to say younger.. but less bulky(?) Kent Brockman?

Here's a pic : http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap10738107ir6.jpg Hempeater 06:27, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I've noticed him, but I don't see why it would be worthy of being mentioned in the article... -- Scorpion 06:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Surely that's Karl from Simpson and Delilah?Gran2 07:08, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think so. The character is basically looks like an off model Kent Brockman. -- Scorpion 07:25, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I overall was very impressed with article on the whole. The only thing I can think of that could be improved would be the prose, which is a little bit less than brilliant. FireSpike 01:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is a music theme playing briefly during the dumping of the Nuclear waste at the beginning of the episode. I was wondering what it is from. It's a sleuthy detective type theme. Maybe we should reference it in the article? My father once told me it was from the show "Metro" but I have never been able to ascertain the answer for sure. Your assistance is appreciated. Guest 05:36, 26 July 2007

Sorry, got no idea, couldn't find anything, not even on SNPP. My personal guess would be that it is from The Untouchables, but I don't now for sure. Gran² 22:11, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's always sounded to me like a version of 'Axel F' from Beverly Hills Cop, but with the notes slightly changed to avoid paying copyright. BillyH 00:38, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's The Simpson's altered version of "Axel F", and this marks the third time that it was used in the series. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.116.101 (talk) 19:12, 2 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Has anyone seen "Taking Woodstock"? In a town hall meeting (in which they decide to allow a music festival in the town) they also discuss wheater they should build a monorail. One woman speaking up in the meeting is called marge. Coincidence? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.34.111.174 (talk) 08:24, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, MASEM 05:21, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm 100% sure Monorail is a spoof of Ya Got Trouble. Lyle Lanley obviously playing the part of Harold Hill. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.148.32.167 (talk) 20:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! I would like to get community discussion on the recent dispute between Scorpion0422 and me. A few minutes ago, I edited the "Cultural references" section to this version. Scorpion0422 then removed a few key ideas from my revision, stating in a message to me that I was adding information that belonged more in essays than in encyclopedia articles. After a few non-controversial edits to Scorpion's version, we have now arrived at the current version. However, I disagree with the objections that he raised, which I shall now address here:

• In a message on my talk page, Scorpion stated that an "analysis about the show in general doesn't belong in specific episode pages." However, I believe that an analysis of Marge vs. the Monorail would be incomplete without mentioning a very brief analysis of the entire series. Every episode contributes to the quality of the series as a whole. Therefore, doesn't it make sense that we should analyze how this particular episode fits in with the rest of the series?
• The discussion of references to The Flintstones in this episode wouldn't be complete without explaining the creators' acknowledgement of the show's contributions to television animation. Without this explanation, the Flinstones reference would only appear as a regular parody of another TV show, not as a tribute to a program that has preceded The Simpsons in television animation.
• Why can't we talk about the caricature of Luke Perry, star of Beverly Hills, 90210? I don't see any reason why this reference should be removed.

I would appreciate community input on this matter so that we can resolved this dispute as quickly as possible.--Edp318 (talk) 01:06, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some notes

• "The Simpsons's creators have acknowledged that they are indebted to The Flinstones as a much earlier effort in television animation" are almost taken verbatim from Leaving Springfield. It should be paraphrased if used. The Flintstones reference is more or less just a regular parody of a TV show. If you call it a tribute, then you might as well call the episode a tribute to Star Trek, The Music Man etc.
• "Such tributes not only add to the show's collection of intertextual images, but also remind audiences of the rich traditions in television animation." is again copied almost verbatim from Leaving Springfield.
• "Although The Simpsons never fails to entertain children with its funny characters and hilarious antics" is paraphrased, but "never fails to entertain", "funny characters" and "hilarious antics" is POV and should be avoided.
• "it is packed with so many cultural references that address an audience so diverse that it is nearly impossible for a viewer to notice all of them". It is redundant to say it is packed with cult. references when you in the same section mentions all the cult. references.
• "Few people under thirty-years-old are likely to remember Nimoy's role in this obscure TV show". Verbatim copy of Leaving Springfield. It is POV to call Star Trek obscure.
• "but younger people are more likely to recognize the caricature of Luke Perry, a star of Fox's Beverly Hills, 90210.". Almost a verbatim copy of Leaving Springfield, but Perry and 90210 should be mentioned.--Maitch (talk) 02:35, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your response. Here are some of my comments:

• Scorpion0422 objected to my first edits to this article because they contained original research. Those edits weren't sourced, so I can see why they would violate policy. Therefore, why is it now a problem that I heavily rely on my source in editing this article? Wikipedia:No original research emphasizes the need to use sources to back up every statement on every article in Wikipedia. Therefore, paraphrasing sentences from Leaving Springfield should be allowed.
• The POV page is an essay, not policy, so compliance is not necessary. However, the essay states, "The article should represent the POVs of the main scholars and specialists who have produced reliable sources on the issue." Leaving Springfield fits this description, so its points of view should be expressed in this article.
• The Flintstones reference is necessary in this article to show how the episode's creators felt about The Flintstones's contribution to television animation. In my opinion, the Flintstones reference is not a regular parody, but an actual tribute to the show, as stated by the Megan Mullen in Leaving Springfield.
• Again, according to the source, Nimoy's role in Star Trek wasn't obscure, but his role in In Search of... was.
• I agree with you that it is redundant to refer to the episode's cultural references in a cultural references section. I'm not pushing for that statement anymore.
• I edited your Luke Perry revision a little, since some of the facts were incorrect.--Edp318 (talk) 04:16, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

After reconsidering all of my previous edits and all of the suggestions both here and on my talk page, I have decided to make a compromise. Would both of you be willing to accept this edit? I think that this one edit encompasses all that I wanted to say in a more concise manner, so if you both accept this edit, then I guess this dispute would be resolved.--Edp318 (talk) 05:06, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• "The discussion of references to The Flintstones in this episode wouldn't be complete without explaining the creators' acknowledgement of the show's contributions to television animation. Without this explanation, the Flinstones reference would only appear as a regular parody of another TV show, not as a tribute to a program that has preceded The Simpsons in television animation."
  • That's stating the obvious, isn't it? Aren't most references done as an acknowledgement/tribute to a previous show? And, if you're going to add it here, wouldn't it have to be added to every article about an episode of The Simpsons that contains a Flintstones parody? (or Star Wars or Warner Bros/Disney cartoons or Clockwork Orange or The Godfather or Citizen Kane, etc, etc.) If you want to post your analysis and opinions of episodes, start a blog, because wikipedia is not the right place. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 05:09, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I didn't see your response here before revising the article itself, so I apologize if my last edit was premature. As to your comment about tributes to a previous show, I think that there is a difference between a "tribute" and a "parody." In this particular article, the references to Star TrekorMusic Man are parodies, but the reference to The Flintstones is a tribute because a reliable source designated it as such.--Edp318 (talk) 05:16, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Why is it any more notable than the hundreds of other "tributes" the show has done? For example: A Streetcar Named Desire in "A Streetcar Named Marge", Mary Poppins in Simpsoncalifragilisticexpiala(Annoyed Grunt)cious, James Bond films in You Only Move Twice, Rocky in The Homer They Fall, The X-Files in The Springfield Files and all of the Treehouse of Horror episodes. Should all of those contain an analysis of the use of references in the show? -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 05:21, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Absolutely! In fact, the featured article on A Streetcar Named Marge already has an analysis of references. The "Production" section discusses how the idea of a parody of A Streetcar Named Desire came about. --Edp318 (talk) 05:31, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • You missed my point. What you are adding is info that could apply to almost any episode of the show. The comments in A Streetcar Named Marge relate directly to the episode. In this case, it's basically an essay about pop culture jammed into the article. "According to the episode's creators, they were paying tribute to The Flinstones for its previous contributions to intertextuality in television animation" and, more significantly, "Such tributes not only add to the show's collection of intertextual images, but also remind audiences of the rich traditions in television animation. Although The Simpsons never fails to entertain children with its funny characters and hilarious antics, it is packed with so many cultural references that address an audience so diverse that it is nearly impossible for a viewer to notice all of them." Cultural references sections are not supposed to be analysis sections, they are generally just meant to be quick summaries of the various references in an episode. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 05:37, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
            • AFAIK there aren't any other episodes that refer to The Flinstones. Therefore, a comment about references to The Flintstones relates directly to this episode as well. The sentence that I just added in to this article is just an explanation of why the creators decided to pay tribute to The Flintstones; it is not an analysis. Furthermore, I have already said that I'm willing to keep the "Such tributes..." out of the article because it makes sense to do so. --Edp318 (talk) 05:46, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
              • [1] -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 05:49, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
                • I agree with Scorpion. The Simpsons has made dozens of references to The Flinstones. Just because Leaving Springfield singles this episode out in an essay, then it doesn't mean that this is a special tribute. Also, the source says "Its creators have readily (and humorously) acknowledged that they are indebted to The Flinstones as a much earlier effort in television animation" and then goes on to mention this episode as an example. It does not specifically say that the creators designed this episode as a tribute to the Flintstones. That connection is only made by Megan Mullen, which is why it is an essay and not hard facts. Far from all essays are usable for Wikipedia. --Maitch (talk) 07:48, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In the Supernatural episode "Something Wicked" protagonist Sam Winchester states that there have been deaths similar to the ones they are investigating in Ogdenville and North Haverbrook. How exactly does this have anything to do with the episode? Where those cities mentioned in Marge vs. The Monorail? And if they were, wouldn't it most likely be a coincidence?DrMGinius (talk) 12:28, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This page lists "Marge vs. the Monorail" as having aired in the fourth season. It says that whe Conan O'Brien pitched the idea, he was told to explore other subjects first; that he had previously pitched "Lisa's Rival," and it "went well." But "Lisa's Rival" didn't air until the sixth season. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.156.219.125 (talk) 19:32, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's contradictory. Sources I checked indicate that O'Brien pitched the "Lisa's Rival" story idea while he was still working on "The Simpsons", and it was favorably received, but that Mike Scully wrote the actual episode after O'Brien left. And Now, Here He Is... Conan O’Brien, Finally Comfy in Success.

Billmckern (talk) 19:47, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Is it the Alweg in Seattle which gave the inspiration?! Being there yesterday and looking at the Mono the first thing that came in my mind had been Homer as monorail driver... --93.220.209.180 (talk) 19:09, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]