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Talk:Mladenovac and Smederevo shootings

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A news item involving Mladenovac and Smederevo shootings was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 7 May 2023.

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Discussions: Not moved, 5 May 2023, from 4 May 2023 Serbiato2023 Dubona shootings, see discussion. Moved, 12 May 2023, to Mladenovac and Smederevo shootings, see discussion.

Text and/or other creative content from Vladislav Ribnikar Elementary School shooting was copied or moved into 4 May 2023 Serbia shootings with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

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Section sizes Section size for Mladenovac and Smederevo shootings (17 sections) Section name Byte count Section total (Top) 2,902 2,902 Background 1,548 1,548 Shooting 10,103 10,103 Casualties 7,924 7,924 Emergency response 1,273 1,273 Legal proceedings 24 17,592 Suspect 6,092 6,092 Suspect's family 9,666 9,666 Witnesses 1,810 1,810 Suspect 4,098 6,791 Events during his imprisonment 2,693 2,693 Aftermath 5,455 9,807 Protests 4,352 4,352 See also 147 147 Notes 36 36 References 30 30 External links 1,011 1,011 Total 59,164 59,164

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This discussion was listed at Wikipedia:Move review on 14 May 2023. The result of the move review was procedural close.

The result of the move request was: not moved. DragonFederal (talk) 10:58, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

4 May 2023 Serbia shootings → 2023 Dubona shootings – Year/city/event. Jax 0677 (talk) 16:06, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose The shootings did not only occur in Dubona. --Vacant0 (talk) 16:06, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose The previous title, "2023 Mladenovac shootings", was better than this, and better than 2023 Dubona shootings for the reason above. I don't know why the title was changed to this, especially without consulting the talk page. This is a bad title. --RaskBunzzz (talk) 16:24, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  The shootings did not only occur in Mladenovac though. The shooter was also present in the municipality of Smederevo. Vacant0 (talk) 16:32, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I've realized this now, but I perhaps "May 2023 Serbia spree shooting" would be better. I don't like the exact date being in the title. -- RaskBunzzz (talk) 16:41, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Reply - How about 2023 Serbia drive-by shooting? --Jax 0677 (talk) 16:55, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We don't usually include spree or drive-by in article titles. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 16:59, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Titles can sometimes have shootings or killings, so 2023 Serbia shootingsor2023 Serbia killings could potentially work. However, Mladenovac and Smederevo shootingsor2023 Mladenovac and Smederevo shootings would probably be best. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:52, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose because the shootings weren't limited to Dubona. They weren't even limited to Mladenovac, which is why I moved this article to its current title. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 16:36, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per above. --IndexAccount (talk) 19:13, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support moving it to Mladenovac and Smederevo shootings, rather to put locations into title than the date. --IndexAccount (talk) 19:50, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Support moving it to 2023 Mladenovac and Smederevo shootings, We already have pages like Bijeljina and Modran shootings where two towns are in the title. --Killuminator (talk) 19:44, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose — three relevant villages on the map belong to Serbia ☆☆☆—Pietadè^Talk 07:02, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• The media coverage I've observed called this a shooting near Mladenovac, and then they'd proceed to identify that as a place near Belgrade because that toponym isn't recognizable enough either. I think we should apply the same logic. The date should definitely be reduced to the year, it's too specific. --Joy (talk) 12:37, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In order to remove part of the date, the locations would need to be in the title. It's complicated because most - but not all - of the spree shooting's locations are in Belgrade. The Velika Ivanča shooting also happened in Mladenovac. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 22:31, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Precision is only one of article title criteria, we also have to make sure the others are observed. If all the villages are near Mladenovac, and the sources describe them as such, the fact that one of them is administratively part of Smederevo is immaterial, as long as the chosen title is otherwise recognizable, concise, using common names, etc. --Joy (talk) 09:01, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose - date is too specific and not one that is memorable/known like 9/11 for example. I am making an alternative proposal to move it to 2023 Serbia shooting spree. "shooting spree" is proposed to avoid the ambiguity with the school shooting from the day before. Ideally, an article linking to both incidents (May 3 and 4) would be made with the title "2023 Serbia mass shootings" or similar. Crazylamb1 (talk) 07:07, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose In Portuguese we called it as Mladenovac and Smederevo Shootings. Marcia Bia (talk) 01:57, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose the name change. I do agree the current name is unsuitable, as I do not think Serbia has enough notable shootings to justify an article with the month and day of the incident, and not even enough requiring the month and year. However, I do not agree with the title because of the reasons listed by other commenters. RPI2026F1 (talk) 18:16, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per above. // 💪BenzoAid💪 🖊️ 07:56, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per above FusionSub (talk) 13:56, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Support move to 2023 Mladenovac and Smederevo shootings – as RPI2026F1 says, notable shootings like this don't happen often in Serbia to the point that using day and month in the year is logical. Per Killuminator, there do exist other articles with multiple locations in the name. This is the most precise location-based name that has been come up with here so far. — AP 499D25 (talk) 04:34, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) ExtorcDev (talk) 13:56, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

4 May 2023 Serbia shootings → Mladenovac and Smederevo shootings – Per proposal mentioned in discussion on the 5 May requested move. DragonFederal (talk) 11:14, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nominator.--Killuminator (talk) 11:30, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Per RM discussion above. --Vacant0 (talk) 15:56, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• This should have been done through the previous RM, closing it as while there's clearly no consensus for the current title was not useful. --Joy (talk) 17:10, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Procedural oppose - The old requested move discussion should be relisted, as consensus was to move the article somehwere. --Jax 0677 (talk) 17:25, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per the nominator RPI2026F1 (talk) 17:39, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Support move to Mladenovac and Smederevo shootings, per my response in the previous 5 May 2023 RM. I suppose it isn't useful to have a year in the title here, considering that the chances of an attack occurring again in the same multiple locations is quite rare. So, I'd say omit the year. — AP 499D25 (talk) 12:33, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Support per nominator. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 01:23, 15 May 2023 (UTC).[reply]
• Support Using the names of the locations would lead to a more natural title. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 07:35, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose. None of the shooting happened in Mladenovac or in Smederevo. The shootings happened in two villages that only administratively belong to the City of Smederevo and the Municipality of Mladenovac (which is itself part of the City of Belgrade). In Serbia, in everyday speach, if you say that something happened in Smederevo, that means it happened in the urban area of Smederevo, not in a village dozens of kilometers from Smederevo. Also, Smederevo and Mladenovac are some 50 km from each other, while this shooting happened in two villages just few kilometers from each other. The proposed title suggests it happened in two totally separate places, while in fact it happened in two adjoining places. Vanjagenije (talk) 09:55, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Vanjagenije: Would Dubona and Malo Orašje shootings make more sense to you? Blaylockjam10 (talk) 02:34, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 Done Dr. Vogel (talk) 14:10, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]