Following this finding of fact in the arbitration case (unrelated to me) I have stopped all administrator activity in the areas I edit — everything related to Northern Europe. I may occasionally make fully uncontroversial actions, such as blocks for and protections against obvious vandalism and obvious BLP violations.
Please leave a message below (I archive the talkpage when it becomes unwieldy, so check out the archive or the talkpage history if you want to see an older discussion).
On27 October 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Ganna (seeress), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The entry was: ... that the early Germanic priestessGanna may have been named for her magic staff?. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Ganna (seeress). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Ganna (seeress)), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
You are a drastic achiver. Here I wanted to thank you for the DYK for Ganna (seeress), and you archived already. It's also featured on Portal:Germany (where I put everything remotely related to Germany, see? I liked reading your user page. You said Wikipedia was more convivial once. How about reviving that spirit? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:34, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Gerda Arendt, you asked me about reviving the old spirit of Wikipedia. I think it is too late for that, unfortunately because Wikipedia has grown too big and too important. Almost cut-throat in a way. Also back in the early more innocent years of Wikipedia, good editors were basically just good editors. Then came the scandals, and you can read about some of them here. I have been told that it was the Essjay scandal that made WP slowly turn sour, and recently a banned editor almost became an admin with a sock, before arbcom stopped it. These things don't instill a lot of communal trust even in the well-behaved regular editors, and it makes the community even harder and less tolerant on editors who have problems following WP policy and guidelines. I have "my own" corner here on WP and the few people who turn up are almost invariably nice and respectful.--Berig(talk)20:22, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker) If I may interject - I think the internet is just generally a less friendly and trusting place than it used to be. I first edited here as an IP back in 2010, and I'm fairly certain all of my edits would have been reverted as unsourced if I had done them today (even though they were backed up by sources, but not cited ones). Certain areas of WP are sort of controlled by/highly contested between nationalist cabals as well, not to mention the scandals and socks that Berig mentioned. None of this lends itself to collegiality outside of a small group of like-minded editors.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:06, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, but we three could at least begin to not make that happen further. When we see an under-referenced article, we can add references (instead of tags, blaming the author, moving the thing to draft space where really nobody will see it, so nobody improve), - for a simple example. No article has to begin perfect, almost no article will ever be perfect, we can help each other to make it better. I said this on AN, and feel I talked Chinese. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:11, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Gerda Arendt, that is what I do. As far as I can remember, I have never added "ref tags" (which I consider to be a kind of trolling), but I look for references and check references in order to improve the articles. The long thread that I started and that sadly led to you losing your friend AlainLouis, was not about him, but about other editors who hoax their references. I was so frustrated with a Swedish editor who for ideological reasons had messed up early Swedish history articles and added references that contradicted his information. He even admitted it to me, but I did not take action because he openly admitted to it and promised to stay away from them in the future.--Berig(talk)15:45, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
On29 October 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Gambara (seeress), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that according to legend, the god of wisdom Odin was tricked by his own wife, and her priestessGambara, to give victory to Gambara's tribe? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Gambara (seeress). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Gambara (seeress)), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
On31 October 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Haliurunas, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the account of the Haliurunas in the 6th century history of the Goths, the Getica, is a precursor to later Christian traditions that wise women had sex and orgies with demons and the Devil? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Haliurunas. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Haliurunas), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
On31 October 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Waluburg, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the Germanic seeressWaluburg is only known from a pot shard found on the island Elephantine in southern Egypt? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Waluburg. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Waluburg), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Phase 2 of the 2021 RfA review has commenced which will discuss potential solutions to address the 8 issues found in Phase 1. Proposed solutions that achieve consensus will be implemented and you may propose solutions till 07 November 2021.
Oh, I had so many sandboxes for a while that I wanted to call them something more interesting than sandbox1, sandbox2, etc. So I called them "incubator", "launchpad", "nursery", "workshop", "workspace", etc. "Wharf" seemed like a nice metaphor, as in place where something is constructed to be launched later when done.--Berig(talk)21:56, 3 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
On21 November 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Cimbrian seeresses, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Cimbrian seeresses are said to have predicted the future by slitting the throats of war prisoners and studying how the blood trickled down into a cauldron? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Cimbrian seeresses. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Cimbrian seeresses), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Hello! Voting in the 2021 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 6 December 2021. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
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Unregistered editors using the mobile website are now able to receive notices to indicate they have talk page messages. The notice looks similar to what is already present on desktop, and will be displayed on when viewing any page except mainspace and when editing any page. (T284642)
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Awesome stuff and very circumspectly done. Wish we had an icon of some kind. I've looked and I'm sure you have as well. Getting a nice "pantheon" of these seeresses. Super job on these pages. Fascinating reading. BusterD (talk) 22:15, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Arecently closed Request for Comment (RFC) reached consensus to remove Autopatrolled from the administrator user group. You may, similarly as with Edit Filter Manager, choose to self-assign this permission to yourself. This will be implemented the week of December 13th, but if you wish to self-assign you may do so now. To find out when the change has gone live or if you have any questions please visit the Administrator's Noticeboard. 20:05, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
On12 December 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Albruna, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Albruna may have been the woman of "superhuman size" who stopped Roman general Drusus's campaign in Germania by prophesying his death? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Albruna. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Albruna), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Hi, just read Albruna. What an interesting article! Great job. Very interesting comparison of Germanic v Roman deification of women, which could in itself make an interesting article. I see from your talk page it’s part of a ‘series’. I’ll have to check the others out. DeCausa (talk) 18:33, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Berig! I've nominated you (along with all other active admins) to receive a solstice season gift from the WMF. Talk page stalkers are invited to comment at the nomination. Enjoy! Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}}talk ~~~~~
Following consensus at the 2021 RfA review, the autopatrolled user right has been removed from the administrators user group; admins can grant themselves the autopatrolled permission if they wish to remain autopatrolled.
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Nothing to indicate that this stone is any more notable than the thousands of others in the database which is its one source (and I'll upgrade the ref so that it links to this stone rather than just to the database): unless the plan is for Wikipedia to copy the entire database, there seems no reason to have an article on this particular stone. Unless I am missing something?
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.
Thank you @PamD: for explaining to me that a 1000 year-old memorial is "not notable". It is one of only 50 surviving Norwegian runestones, and in addition it belongs to a minority of c. 10% in all of Scandinavia that tells of voyages abroad. I am very surprised.--Berig(talk)12:19, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't say it wasn't notable: I said that nothing in the article indicated that it was notable, but admitted that I might be missing something. The fact that it has a "Common name" and the further sourcing provided by @Phil Bridger: clarify that it is notable. PamD12:57, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Berig! I've come across this at least twice, most recently today [1]. Someone's been adding some idiosyncratic IPA's of Old Norse names, with the ending -r given as [z̠]. My understanding was that -R had shifted to -r long before the time these names would have been written. (Also not sure about [ɣ] for /g/). I suspect this will be in more places around the encyclopdia. You're a linguist so I thought you'd better be able to judge this than me.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:32, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have seen it too, but I think it is a realistic rendering of early ON. G was pronounded as [ɣ] in medial position. The pronunciation of the nominal case marker -r/-R as [z] is thought to have lasted into the Viking Age, and [r] and and a kind of [z] are still allophones in Swedish, and in Stockholm the letter r is usually pronounded as a kind of [z], probably a remnant of R.--Berig(talk)19:19, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The user group oversight will be renamed suppress in around 3 weeks. This will not affect the name shown to users and is simply a change in the technical name of the user group. The change is being made for technical reasons. You can comment in Phabricator if you have objections.
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I snuck back into Germanic stuff. I am afraid I just mucked about a bit with your Sö 140 article; as I read him, although he cited the interpretation of siþi as "work magic", he actually wanted to read "bring about [protection]". So I added a citation for the magic working and for both amounting to invoking protection. I hope I haven't misread the Swedish and mucked it up.
I've been looking also at Öl 1 / DR 411. Obviously most at the disputed crosses/hammers. It occurs to me that the two parts of the runic inscription are in conflict, insofar as the prose merely refers to raising the stone, while the verse describes the guy as a draugr in a barrow. Obviously this stone is a provocation. Since the verse is generally agreed to be West Norse, may I ask whether the prose is, too? And whether there is any indication that there was a barrow? The skalds didn't quote each other, but while I was considering the possibility that the stone as we have it is the result of a graffiti war, it popped into my head that this stone may be an exception to that rule. Yngvadottir (talk) 13:31, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the entire inscription is believed to have been made by a Norwegian or an Icelander, which is based on the use of the r-rune instead of the R-rune. Since the stone is also usually associated with warriors who returned from the Battle of the Fýrisvellir, this should not be very surprising since there was also an Icelandic skald named Þórvaldr Hjaltason on the Swedish side in the battle. There would have been a barrow at the site, but most barrows were small and have disappeared due to a millenium of plowing. The word draugr does not seem to refer to a "draugr" though, but to a meaning "tree trunk" and part of a kenning for chieftain.--Berig(talk)16:04, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, thank you! draugr dolga Þrúðar, I see it now. McKinnell, Simek, and Düwel say it "also conjures up the image"; I can see only ch. 12 of their book in pdf thanks to somebody on Wikipedia, and it seems a bit uncritical (and on that stone, appears to be counting the Latin-lettered side too when they tot up the number of hammers?). Yes, it seems a safe hypothesis that this is one of the Fyrisvellir dead, and I suppose it's possible the entire cohort were Norwegians/Icelanders ... so they managed to get the body out? I was thinking that was unlikely. I finally found it not yet edited at the Skaldic Project with the help of Google, and from there in Skjaldedigtning p. 177. Yngvadottir (talk) 23:05, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
According to excerpts from the recently discovered and possibly forged Gesta wulinensis published by Sven Rosborn, Sibbi was the Danish king's jarl and ruled over Jutland and Zealand. He appears to have conspired with the Swedish king against Styrbjörn.--Berig(talk)21:20, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Heh, intrigues within intrigues, thanks; and that document again! If true, that might explain his getting a mound. But I still suspect the stone has been subject to some tit-for-tat symbol carving and altering. Thanks to modern digital cameras and an apparent dose of herbicide, I was able to get a good look at the base of the front side and compare to DR 120 (and that reminds me, at some point I have to get Google maps to show me how close together some of these runestones really are). Apologies; I know I make more errors than sense. Yngvadottir (talk) 09:09, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, you had? Thanks for the article! I see my guess was right and sprængt does not suggest the stone had been dynamited; did you notice atDanske Runeindskrifter that the museum later moved to a new building and it got dropped and broke into twice as many pieces? Poor old stone. They think it may be a tau cross, which is of course a lot of hooey; on the other hand they provide the ref for the Thor article, which I ought not to edit, interpreting DR 48 as a Thor's hammer, though Moltke and McKimmell/Simek/Düwel think it's too late. Katherine Beard's dissertation is proving useful, though I find I disagree with her on some things, including the front side of Karlevi. But then I tend to find points of disagreement with everybody ... By the way, using the plan a trip function at Google maps, last night I think I successfully replaced a couple of scholarly statements about stones being "nearby" with Sö 140 being 7 miles from Sö 133 and less than 2 miles from Sö Fv1948;289 (and peered at a few runestones on Google Street View). Yngvadottir (talk) 09:54, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I know that you're quite busy, but I was wondering if you might be interested in contributing to this draft, which I intend to eventually replace Germanic paganism. It remains in the earliest stages so far. In particular, I'm not yet sure how the section on the the gods should be arranged - I'm just collecting info that might end up being useful elsewhere at the moment and then I suspect it should be condensed into a single section discussing them as a group and probably some of the details removed.
In either case, I think that an article more focused on the actual archaeological evidence of Germanic religion is well in order and I'm slowly collecting that (especially since it's not controversial in the way that the deities are). It would be good to have another editor with a different perspective and access to different sources than I have contributing even in a small way, and I enjoyed working with you on Germanic heroic legend before.--Ermenrich (talk) 15:56, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like a very good start indeed! I will see if I can add information and help out, but I don't think I can commit myself as much as I did last time.--Berig(talk)19:55, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Ermenrich:, I will not hurry because the topic deserves time. We need two approaches to this article. You have already started the bottom-up approach, but we also need a top down approach that takes into account how comparative studies can shed some light on Germanic paganism.--Berig(talk)08:37, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A RfC is open to discuss prohibiting draftification of articles over 90 days old.
Technical news
The deployment of the reply tool as an opt-out feature, as announced in last month's newsletter, has been delayed to 7 March. Feedback and comments are being welcomed at Wikipedia talk:Talk pages project. (T296645)
Hi. Since we discussed this before, I thought I'd point out a renewed edit-war on the article. Figured a few more eyes couldn't hurt. — kwami (talk) 22:00, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Berig, I'm pretty sure that Rosengarten zu Worms is the same long-term abuser we've banned a few times making edits around Germanic heroic legend. Can't remember the exact name at the moment, but the same focus on the Rosengarten is evident. He posted some insulting messages on your talk page as you'll recall. In any case, more scrutiny of his edits is needed, as he doesn't actually appear to know what he's talking about (see the discussion at talk:Gudrun and talk:Sigurd for examples).--Ermenrich (talk) 15:11, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Remedy 2 of the St Christopher case has been rescinded following a motion. The remedy previously authorised administrators to place a ban on single-purpose accounts who were disruptively editing on the article St Christopher Iba Mar Diop College of Medicine or related pages from those pages.
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Yes. Unfortunately I'm increasingly drawn into fighting with Russian disinformation here which makes me want to rage quit the place. Our policies appear to be quite weak when it comes to (possibly well-meaning and misinformed) people spreading crap. People are literally being tortured, murdered, and shelled for no good reason but we aren't allowed to say that "influencers" who justify or deny it are spreading propaganda because they're barely covered in RS...--Ermenrich (talk) 19:52, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Russian nationalism is a cancer. I have friends in Russia, IRL, who are fervently pro-Putin, but out of respect for me (they know I love Russia), they avoid discussing it with me. In my case, I have lost an entire fortune in Russia due to the sanctions.--Berig(talk)20:03, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oy gevalt. My in-laws are currently refugees because of the war, although their region is still mostly unaffected. Unfortunately they were brainwashed by the Russian Orthodox Church and can't quite wrap their heads around the situation - they don't support the war exactly but they believe the "Ukraine is shelling itself" stuff and are more concerned with anti-Russian sentiment in Ukraine than the f*cking Russian army murdering everyone - but my wife at least is sane about it. She also can't talk about it with them, it makes her too upset. Then again, her parents also believe that Covid isn't real and various other things, so I guess she's used to it.--Ermenrich (talk) 20:11, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, people really are that brainwashed in Russia. My brother-in-law is totally pro-Putin, but his wife is totally against the war. He has argued incessantly with my wife (his sister) and his own wife. I am actually proud that my wife's closest relatives all have gone to the Israeli embassy to claim the "right of return" to Israel. They will probably all be living in Israel in the future.--Berig(talk)20:17, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's even more disheartening when the brainwashed people are Ukrainian... This is hardly new with them though. When I visited one time they gave me Miracle Mineral Supplement to help with a fever (I didn't know what it was). My wife told me they forbid her from using playing cards because the card suites are somehow Satanic, and they wouldn't let her watch Teletubbies as a kid because they thought the antennae on the Teletubbies's heads looked like devil horns...--Ermenrich (talk) 20:38, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That really sounds like rural conservative Christians. I grew up in a small town that was predominantly baptist, and I can imagine some of the people I grew up with sharing the same kind of delusions.--Berig(talk)20:58, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
An RfC has been closed with consensus to add javascript that will show edit notices for editors editing via a mobile device. This only works for users using a mobile browser, so iOS app editors will still not be able to see edit notices.
An RfC has been closed with the consensus that train stations are not inherently notable.
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Also, it turns out that Dietrich and Witege, the only two Germanic heroes in the image, are upside down. I wonder if we shouldn't flip the image and replace it.--Ermenrich (talk) 13:23, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! Well done! I actually once knew a scholar whose mother was the minister of that church, and I have long thought of going there to take colour pictures of the the paintings :-)--Berig(talk)16:13, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That would certainly be cool. I'm giving a talk on images of Dietrich von Bern in about a week and I happened upon the information. I've decided to include the church fresco briefly in my talk :-). It's a gathering of Germanists, so I doubt they'll know much about medieval Sweden, though a few have studied Old Norse.--Ermenrich (talk) 12:49, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, you wouldn't happen to know who the knight on the fresco labeled "Trullat" (or possibly "Crullat") is, would you? His opponent is not labeled, unfortunately. The other figures are David and Goliath, Holger Danske and Burmand, and Dietrich and Witege.--Ermenrich (talk) 12:53, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Trullat must be a rendering of Trollet, i.e. 'the Troll'. At least in the Swedish version, there is a Troll. Medieval Trolls were not the same as modern-day fantasy Trolls.--Berig(talk)18:17, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Troll was my best guess as well, but that leaves me to wonder why the opponent is unlabeled - it's a good versus an evil figure in the other cases, so the unnamed knight must be the "good guy" in that case. Could a troll be a jousting knight? I'll need to look into it more if I pursue this beyond the talk, there's some published descriptions of the frescoes, though I think the best one is in Swedish.--Ermenrich (talk) 18:34, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I doubt that much is known about medieval Scandinavian Trolls. I can very well imagine a Troll jousting as a knight, because they may have been relatively hard to tell apart from from humans. Moreover, the word troll basically means "supernatural" and "magical", and there is a strong shape-shifting element in Scandinavian myths.--Berig(talk)19:08, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Berig! Can’t say I’ve heard of Sone Føslink! Do you think the sources for the illustrations are ballads? I might need to see if there’s a ballad of Dietrich fighting Witege, rather than assuming the source is the Didriks Krönike.—-Ermenrich (talk) 21:15, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The ballads were probably more well-known by the parishioners. Sone Føslink and the Troll must refer to the Swedish ballad Sven Flötling och trollet[6]. Among the Swedish ballads we also find Holger dansk och Burman. I can't find a ballad about Didrik fighting Vidrik, but there may very well have been one. The vast majority of the ballads are probably lost.--Berig(talk)07:19, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm starting to get the Wikipedia itch again for the first time since the war started, although I really don't have time for it at all. Looking at my sandbox I'm struck that, besides information on gods in the pantheon, the draft is mostly done. Do you share that impression? That would give me and any willing helpers a more limited task to focus on. Maybe I can try summarizing the articles on e.g. Thor and adding the info that way as well (normally I like to always write it myself/new for an article so I can be sure about the references, but I don't know that I have time).--Ermenrich (talk) 13:09, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You have done a great job with it. It is a fine article in its present state, and I think you should go ahead and launch it. There are things to improve, naturally, but there always are, and it is mostly a matter of polishing, but that can always be done later.--Berig(talk)17:45, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Berig! I'll try to put it out as soon as I can. I have a feeling I'll need to give up even more on Wikipedia editing than I have - I've just been asked to become the treasurer of a major scholarly organization for medievalists (not Germanists) and even though I'd rather tell them I'm way too busy, I should probably say yes. Could be useful when I go up for tenure next year. For the moment, the decision is really stressing me out though.--Ermenrich (talk) 19:29, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Of course you should choose what is beneficial for your career! I am sure many present and former Wikipedians deeply regret that they didn't have their priorities straight and let WP steal too much time and energy.--Berig(talk)19:36, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
HiKrakkos, thanks for the extremely useful suggestion! I don't have a strong opinion on Germanic religion vs. paganism. I think the only upside to saying "paganism" is that it excludes "Germanic Christianity," but I leave that decision up to others.--Ermenrich (talk) 17:34, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think calling pagan beliefs religion is a misnomer. Religion implies standardization, dogma and an organized priestly class, things that were rare or non-existent in Germanic and other forms of paganism.--Berig(talk)04:44, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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I'm sorry I inadvertently prioritised Old West Norse, I was trying to keep it simple and in any case would have presumably got it wrong. As it is the guy still doesn't seem to understand the problem of no canonical spelling; he probably isn't aware how widely English pronunciations vary, and he may think "Norse" is the same thing as "Norwegian". Anyway, sorry to have bothered you, and thanks. I hope the term is going well. I may try to add some info to Tängelgårda stone, and in the old days I'd have written amulet ring (unsatisfactory stub on sv.) or even hammer ring, but we lack the necessary images on Commons and besides there are so many reasons I shouldn't :-) Maybe I'll put something in my userspace. Yngvadottir (talk) 21:20, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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God Jul till dig också! Ja, jag frågar mig samma sak. Saken är den att bland alla knäppskallar, besserwissrar, idioter och rent ut sagt otrevliga typer finns det också en de riktigt bra människor här på WP.--Berig(talk)06:35, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Arbitration
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I was wondering if you might be able to help me. I'm working on a project involving the Old Swedish Didriks Kroenika (which does not have a separate article on WP, unfortunately), and the only edition is basically a diplomatic transcription of the manuscript [7]. My Old Swedish is based entirely on my (not spectacular) Old Norse, so I'm having trouble deciphering them. On page 220 there is sort of this passage:
videke rendhe vndhan th3 mesthe han motte A'n didrik effther honum / tha rendhe vidheke vti swyo'n ok sanch strax(?) vnter vatnith. didrik sko't sith spywth epther honum sa ath th3 stodh j bakkan harth vidh Ana.
Here it is in Cumpstey's English if that helps:
Wideke ran away as best he could, and still Didrik followed him. Then Wideke ran out into the river, and sank at once under the water. Didrik threw his spear after him so that it landed in the hill right next to the river.
And this is on page 300:
Som hii fo'r haffuer horth huru wideke welanson flydde fo'r didrik aff bern ok sanch j syon wid granz?port / tho kom til honum en haffru hans fadher fadher modher ok togh honum ok fo'rde honum til sa'landh ok war ther longa stundh
English:
As you have heard before, Wideke Welandsson fled from Didrik of Bern and sank into the sea at Gransport. Then a mermaid came to him, his father’s father’s mother, and she took him and carried him to Sealand, and he was there for a long time.
Do you know what word "th3" should be? The 3 reminds me of a Latin abbreviation for "-um", but that seems wrong. It also could be a z, but "thz" is clearly an abbreviation for something. It's a form of de/det I'm guessing. Is that sort of hook (represented here by ') an acute accent? A way of writing "i"? And what on earth is with "strax" - the x looks king of like a Latin abbreviation for -rum, but again, that seems wrong.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:25, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The first "th3" means "the" , but the second is "thet" and means "that". The writer appars to have left out the last -t. The phrase "th3 mesthe han motte" is in English "the most he might" (translated with the English cognates). "Strax" is still a used word and means in a "short moment". It is a loan word from a German word "strack(e)s". The accent is an old way of writing the umlaut, so o' is simply ö, and a' is ä. Berig(talk)21:14, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. German actually does a line like that for umlaut too sometimes at this time. I was confused by strax because the x looks funny in the edition. The scribe seems to always write “th3”, so I’ll need to figure out when it’s de or det!—Ermenrich (talk) 23:38, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A self-correction. I wrote the answer just before going to bed. Now that I am awake and thinking more clearly, th3 is simply way of writing "thet", modern Swedish "det". Both "the"/"de" and "thet"/"det" can correspond to English "the" as definite articles ("DET stora huset"="THE big house" and "DE stora husen"="THE big houses"), while "thet"/"det" can mean "that" as a neuter pronoun ("jag vet DET"="I know THAT"). Berig(talk)07:56, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The sign is usually transcribed as "z", or the word is spelled out without comment - it is also often used in "mz", "met", modern Swedish "med", 'with'. For examples, see the first page of Erikskrönikan in a more scholarly and a more popular edition: [8][9]. I've tried to look into it, but there is a lot of at best semi-contradictory claims about it. The abbreviation sign seems to have been identical in form to a z, but depending on when and where the manuscript was written, there might not be a lot of ordinary z:s.
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Hi Berig - in the Thidreks saga the character of Apollonius uses the pseudonym "Heppa" at one point while disguising himself as a woman. I haven't found this in Foerstemann - any idea where the name might come from? It looks like it's short for something. P's are of course rare in Germanic except for in Bavarian where b->p.--Ermenrich (talk) 15:01, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
PS. This word created a bit of a semantic mess for me that I had to correct. The modern Swedish form of heppinn (häpen) means "surprised" and the Swedish cognate of lucky (lycklig) means "happy".--Berig(talk)07:23, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Template:Myarchive has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. WOSlinker (talk) 18:55, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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