I noticed that after losing the debate here, the anonymous IP forked the Eastern Suburbs page at Wikivoyage to create a separate "South Eastern Suburbs" page
Thanks. it's just laughable by the anon IP. Wikivoyage is a travel guide, how many tourists know of "South Eastern Sydney". The 3 restaurants listed out of probably 100s in the Eastern suburbs is laughable, probably his favourite restaurants. LibStar (talk) 04:40, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Didn't put the suburb for last 2 restaurants. We can reasonably be sure the anon IP lives in Clovelly, and thinks it's definitely part of the SE Sydney! LibStar (talk) 05:10, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Completely bizarre given how far north Clovelly is...
I have merged the South Eastern Suburbs content back into the Eastern Suburbs page. Could you take a look, and then delete the South Eastern Suburbs page?
I think Mapper2000 and Electro333 are the same person as Traveller2000 (Wikitravel) and Voyage2023 (Wikivoyage).
They have been creating fake maps at wikidata, starting around April 2023, when it became clear that no government/official maps supported the concept of the "South Eastern Suburbs" ...
Eh, not surprised, and would be happy to request a x-wiki CU investigation on Meta. Though whatever happens on Wikitravel is irrelevant because a) it's not a WMF project; b) that site is a museum piece that deserves to die. --SHB2000 (talk) 07:09, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You could try requesting on m:SRCU. I won't do so myself given that I don't want to be dealing with two different wikidramas at the same time (the other is with Kallerna on Commons). --SHB2000 (talk) 09:14, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
hi @Daceyvillain, hope you're well. stumbled upon this discussion via reddit. the user is also promoting their fake maps there as Aussie3210.
i work with geographical data all the time. it's hard enough 'doing geography' when everyone involved has clear and good intentions and try to be consistent. stuff like this really peeves me because it'll end up referenced elsewhere, or even published or referenced in something with on-the-ground impacts. i can't tell you how many times i've had to reverse engineer a boundary from some report or website that is based on nothing but the author's feelings.
i'm new to wikipedia and its affiliates (i note your discussions over on commons...) so not sure how i can assist but wanted to comment and let you know i'm on the same page and happy to help. Jrowls (talk) 02:01, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
They seem completely mad... they have different accounts (often several different accounts) on Wikipedia, Wiki Commons, Wikivoyage, Wikitravel, Reddit, Quora, and elsewhere, all made just to repost their fake maps, despite them being well aware that their maps are wrong and are not supported by gov sources or by commercial sources
I am so confused by their motivation. Are they are a real estate agent fighting for territory? Or someone who paid a premium for a house on the boundary of Bronte and Clovelly? Or just a nutter?
They are bonkers, I still think they're from Clovelly as they listed "favourite" SE restaurants only in Clovelly and forgot to add suburb name. Possibly works at Good Guys Moore Park? LibStar (talk) 05:11, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
One of their IPs (their work IP?) was registered to Good Guys Moore Park, yep
BTW on Reddit, they are talking to themselves using multiple accounts (just like on here)
Aside: on most of these platforms, they also seem to be obsessed with hazel vs green eyes. They get into all sorts of discussions about those specific eye colours. It gives me strange vibes... like Silence of the Lambs vibes... Daceyvillain (talk) 05:16, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Reading all this drama and conspiring is actually hilarious. I was one of the people involved in the South-Eastern Sydney debate earlier this year and stumbled across the Reddit post of 'Eastern Sydney Suburbs Map' which instantly made me think of the Wikipedia debate that happened. Reading through the comments I found one by none other than the famous Wikipedian name 'Daceyvillain' who has appeared to have created an account on Reddit because he didn't like the picture just to bring up the Wikipedia debates on a completely unrelated website calling someone else a nut (lol).
Apparently Daceyvillain has now been scouring the internet publicly claiming to be the eastern suburbs police trying to find any and all traces of any mention of the 'south-east' and concludes that one person must have created maps, accounts, posts, articles, council proposals (lol) similarly to how Daceyvillain claimed that one person was behind all the accounts defending the south-eastern sydney article (yeah, right...maybe it's the boogey man).
Maybe this article is written by the same person too (gasp);
Reading the comments on reddit led me down this rabbit hole of nonsense that has continued to transpire through the year as obviously Daceyvillain's actions have resulted in a ripple effect in the community with people now wanting the south-east acknowledged. Probably would have been easier to have just kept the original article as not all regions of Sydney are defined by government sources with many being informal (Forest District for instance) rather than taking notice of Daceyvillain whose only desire is to have his neighbourhood called 'the eastern suburbs'. 2405:6E00:2EC:6094:B4A5:9CE4:559B:3C95 (talk) 07:58, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You were not just one of the people involved - in fact you and your other office and cellular IPs were the only person who was pushing to divide the Eastern Suburbs into subregions.
guess who has now deleted their reddit account! ha.
yes, i also saw the hazel eyes discussion. interestingly, from a quick look at the discourse in those subreddits, our hero seems to be virulently in the wrong on that matter as well.
They have now posted a single government map as a source, but it is a map that we already discussed 6 months ago and it defines the area in question as the Eastern Suburbs and not as the South Eastern Suburbs
Update: I don't think they deleted their Reddit account, I think they actually blocked you (and blocked me) so that their Reddit posts appear to be deleted. Because they are that kind of coward... but you can still see the posts if you logout. Daceyvillain (talk) 15:04, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
They have actually deleted their original posts now, but reposted here
good lord. that's some good continuing sleuth work, dacey. i'm very tempted to make some of my own maps and post them in their little subreddit. Jrowls (talk) 10:30, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, here is my attempt at a map. The M1 Motorway becomes much easier to cross in Surry Hills, and it is gone/underground by the time Darlinghurst begins, so the boundary there is a bit fuzzy.
I used their Geoscience Australia base map and their suburb boundary overlay. The M1 / Eastern Distributor seems like a pretty clear modern day boundary, as it is mostly hard and unpleasant to cross, especially to walk across. But some definitions would also include old suburbs like Mascot, Eastlakes, Rosebery, etc, in the Eastern Suburbs, as they were built at same time as the rest, and built before the M1 motorway was built and more clearly divided everything. Should I add more fuzzy boundaries? I don’t think we will ever get a perfect map, but I could tweak this one Daceyvillain (talk) 22:52, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jrowls Daceyvillain does not approve of the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) definition of Sydney's Eastern Suburbs and would never make a map reflecting their definition as the ABS like all official government definitions of Sydney's Eastern Suburbs only defines it as being comprised of the LGAs of Woollahra, Waverley and Randwick Council.
Government definitions of Sydney's Eastern Suburbs have never nor will ever officially include Bayside Council nor did they ever include the former area of City of Botany Bay. City of Botany Bay was often described as being part of 'South Sydney' or 'South-Eastern Sydney' and the official Bayside website describes itself as covering Sydney's Southern Suburbs and South-Eastern Suburbs (https://www.bayside.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2019-08/Information%20Guide%20Bayside%20Council.pdf). Just whatever you do, don't mention the term 'south-east' to Daceyvillain they become manic when they hear that hyphenation.
This all means that their cherished suburb of Daceyville is never actually included in official government definition of the Eastern Suburbs which makes Daceyvillain frantic and that is their sole purpose, to justify that Daceyville is part of the Eastern Suburbs which is why Daceyvillain's made the map. 2405:6E00:4EE:E575:4E37:3CDF:E74F:EB5E (talk) 15:54, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jrowls, for context, the anon IP has previously not acknowledged any government maps (despite links to government maps being provided to them hundreds of times). The anon IP was instead trying to define the Eastern Suburbs as a very small area ending around Bondi Junction, but they couldn't provide any references to support their original research.
Maps provided by government typically continue all the way south to La Perouse, but they use various/onconsistent western boundaries. That is why I drew a fuzzy western border on the map above (happy to include more fuzzy lines...).
Here are a few examples of government maps with different western boundaries:
But I'm sure that the anon IP will just ignore these maps, as they have been ignoring them for the last year or more...
Actually, this is probably the first time that the anon IP has even acknowledged the ABS map, because they were so obsessed with the idea that the Eastern Suburbs should end at Bondi Junction, but the ABS map shows the Eastern Suburbs continuing south to La Perouse. In particular, the anon IP seemed to refuse to admit Randwick Council into their personal definition of the Eastern Suburbs... Daceyvillain (talk) 21:56, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Methinks thou doth protest too much.
That ridiculous source you keep posting of SESLHD from 2016 that puts Botany Bay into the Eastern Suburbs is also highlighting Sydney CBD and The Rocks in the Eastern Suburbs. It is not accurate, recent nor valid. Find a single map from 2017 until now that puts Bayside Council or any part of it in the Eastern Suburbs. I promise you won't find a single one as every government source only acknowledges Sydney's Eastern Suburbs to be comprised of Woollahra, Waverley and Randwick Council, nothing more and nothing less. This is not my opinion, this is a fact.
In actuality to your surprise I agree with your map of the Eastern Suburbs ending at Southern Cross Drive but using that as a boundary is purely POV and opinion based as if we're talking straight facts, government sources never use Southern Cross Drive as the official boundary of the eastern suburbs whether you or I like it or not, instead it uses the Eastern Distributor, part of Gardeners Road and Bunnerong Road.
The government considers Bayside Council a southern council overall and does not include any of it in the eastern suburbs so if we're taking POV and opinion out of this debate and just using government sources (which is what we're supposed to do on Wikipedia) then modern government maps/sources is what we should be basing the information off otherwise we're just being hypocrites now aren't we? 2405:6E00:4EE:E575:4E37:3CDF:E74F:EB5E (talk) 15:14, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you agree with me that is great.
So you will stop trolling and vandalising, then?
Re: maps
You have spent over a year ignoring links to maps, but here are some more links for fun...
And here is a map from 1876 showing dense development in Randwick, Coogee, Maroubra, etc. but showing a whole lot of nothing in Rose Bay, Bellevue Hill, Bondi Beach, etc.
Mr Good Guys is also too cowardly to create an account, switching IPs to give the appearance of multiple people working on the same agenda. LibStar (talk) 22:42, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's a shame you haven't learnt by now that when you screw over enough people on Wikipedia you make enemies and you've made a very bad one. I promise you that no matter what you do online and wherever your name pops up, I will be watching and you will never be rid of me. You will never win this war you disgusting houso. 2405:6E00:290:3DA1:B40C:5C4A:6904:197E (talk) 08:19, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
User:2405:6E00:290:3DA1:B40C:5C4A:6904:197E is also too chicken to set up an account. Instead relying on multiple IPs. LibStar (talk) 10:58, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They weirdly did setup an account - but they setup lots and lots of accounts, all for reverting different parts of my edit history
Another funny thing, they created their own Fandom wiki (all the edits on every page are from User6000) just to try to push their South Eastern Suburbs concept even further
forgive me for my wikipedia ignorance, but is there some way to get users like this permanently banned across accounts? it's such poor behaviour. Jrowls (talk) 06:30, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, pretty toxic. They received another IP ban (these bans don't last foerever tho), and some pages received extra protections so that only established accounts can edit them. Daceyvillain (talk) 01:42, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]