m Raydann moved page Talk:2023 Turkey–Syria earthquaketoTalk:2023 Turkey–Syria earthquakes without leaving a redirect: Perform requested move, see talk page
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{{ITN talk|6 February|2023|oldid=1137747746}} |
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|date1=6 February 2023|destination1=2023 Gaziantep earthquake|result1=not moved|link1=Special:Permalink/1137917668#Requested move 6 February 2023 |
|date1=6 February 2023|destination1=2023 Gaziantep earthquake|result1=not moved|link1=Special:Permalink/1137917668#Requested move 6 February 2023 |
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|date2=7 February 2023|destination2=2023 Turkey–Syria earthquakes|result2=no consensus|link2=Special:Permalink/1139105679#Requested move 7 February 2023 |
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|date3=14 February 2023|destination3=2023 Turkey–Syria earthquakes|result3=Not moved|link3=Special:Permalink/1140630716#Move_the_article%2C_there_were_Multiple_earthquakes_not_just_one |
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== Title == |
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I know that because the earthquake was harsher in Turkey the title is written as 2023 Turkey-Syria earthquake. But isn't it better to write the country's names in alphabetical order? For example we have [[Afghanistan-Iran relations]] and [[Iran-Ukraine relations]]. [[User:Aminabzz|Aminabzz]] ([[User talk:Aminabzz|talk]]) 11:07, 13 August 2023 (UTC) |
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== Grammy == |
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The earthquake happened just 17 minutes after the start of main ceremony of [[65th Annual Grammy Awards]]. So is it okay to include this as well in the article? [[User:Aminabzz|Aminabzz]] ([[User talk:Aminabzz|talk]]) 23:50, 15 August 2023 (UTC) |
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:Irrelevant, [[WP:TRIVIA]]. [[User:Borgenland|Borgenland]] ([[User talk:Borgenland|talk]]) 18:41, 2 September 2023 (UTC) |
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== Title and despriction == |
== Title and despriction == |
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:There has been quite a lot of discussion about the title in the past. There are now at least 51 scientific papers that talk about the earthquake(s) to some degree. Of these 8 refer to the earthquake(s) as a [[doublet earthquakes|doublet]], 17 as "earthquakes", 14 as an "earthquake", 8 as an "earthquake sequence", with 4 only mentioning the event(s) in passing. In total then, 33 of the papers refer to earthquakes plural and 14 as singular. Only one of the 51 mentions Gaziantep, with the most common descriptor (22) being "Turkey", followed by 12 as『Kahramanmaraş』and 11 as "Turkey-Syria", with 5 other descriptors. The [[OCHA]] use "Turkiye/Syria: Earthquakes". International news stories in the last two months use a mixture - Al Jazeera "Turkey-Syria earthquake", The Guardian "Turkey withdraws as host of Cop16, blaming February’s earthquakes", CNN "Ashley Judd describes conditions six months after devastating earthquake hit Turkey and Syria". In conclusion, the majority of sources use earthquakes in the plural, hardly any use Gaziantep, Turkey-Syria is quite commonly used but not as much as Kahramanmaraş or just Turkey. We should probably revisit the discussion as to whether we should change to "2023 Turkey–Syria earthquakes", but not to your suggestion I think. [[User:Mikenorton|Mikenorton]] ([[User talk:Mikenorton|talk]]) 23:38, 1 September 2023 (UTC) |
:There has been quite a lot of discussion about the title in the past. There are now at least 51 scientific papers that talk about the earthquake(s) to some degree. Of these 8 refer to the earthquake(s) as a [[doublet earthquakes|doublet]], 17 as "earthquakes", 14 as an "earthquake", 8 as an "earthquake sequence", with 4 only mentioning the event(s) in passing. In total then, 33 of the papers refer to earthquakes plural and 14 as singular. Only one of the 51 mentions Gaziantep, with the most common descriptor (22) being "Turkey", followed by 12 as『Kahramanmaraş』and 11 as "Turkey-Syria", with 5 other descriptors. The [[OCHA]] use "Turkiye/Syria: Earthquakes". International news stories in the last two months use a mixture - Al Jazeera "Turkey-Syria earthquake", The Guardian "Turkey withdraws as host of Cop16, blaming February’s earthquakes", CNN "Ashley Judd describes conditions six months after devastating earthquake hit Turkey and Syria". In conclusion, the majority of sources use earthquakes in the plural, hardly any use Gaziantep, Turkey-Syria is quite commonly used but not as much as Kahramanmaraş or just Turkey. We should probably revisit the discussion as to whether we should change to "2023 Turkey–Syria earthquakes", but not to your suggestion I think. [[User:Mikenorton|Mikenorton]] ([[User talk:Mikenorton|talk]]) 23:38, 1 September 2023 (UTC) |
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::The earthquakes happaned “Kahramanmaraş/Pazarcık” (7.8mg) and “Kahramanmaraş/Ekinözü/Elbistan” (7.6mg) provinces, not Gaziantep, not syria. Gaziantep and other places effected by the earthquakes hardly. Both Turkish state officials and universities are approve epicenter by Kahramanmaraş province.Please fix this the page’s title because of wrong informing. [[Special:Contributions/176.90.200.5|176.90.200.5]] ([[User talk:176.90.200.5|talk]]) 14:37, 7 April 2024 (UTC) |
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:::Wikipedia is for a global audience, not Turkish viewers. The title is for searchability and awareness within the global context. An earthquake's epicenter is not its only defining characteristic, definitely not for this historic event. This event sparked an international humanitarian crisis; the article covers aspects of its impact outside of Turkey. Removing Syria from the title which appears to be your suggestion gives an unfair and [[WP:undue weight|undue weight]] and is a misrepresentation of the topic. |
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Wikipedia does not appeal only to Turkish viewers hence I see no reason why the title should be changed now. '''''[[User:Dora the Axe-plorer|Dora the Axe-plorer]]''''' ([[User talk:Dora the Axe-plorer|explore]]) 14:52, 7 April 2024 (UTC) |
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:I understand very well. İn that case, the title should be commutative. But if you are insistent about the title, you must change epicenter info. the article contains wrong information about epicenter. Kahramanmaraş earthquakes happend Kahramanmaraş province, not Gaziantep. At least fix this the wrong infor [[Special:Contributions/178.247.113.107|178.247.113.107]] ([[User talk:178.247.113.107|talk]]) 16:24, 7 April 2024 (UTC) |
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:Because of your article contains wrong information. Your viewers (not Turkish) learn wrong data. Please, exploration the “historical earthquakes” event and then write correct sentence. [[Special:Contributions/178.247.113.107|178.247.113.107]] ([[User talk:178.247.113.107|talk]]) 16:54, 7 April 2024 (UTC) |
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::You know nothing John Snow 😂 [[Special:Contributions/176.88.122.46|176.88.122.46]] ([[User talk:176.88.122.46|talk]]) 19:09, 7 April 2024 (UTC) |
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:::With that f**k*ss attitude, don't expect any Wikipedians to attend to whatever queries or request you raise, however valid it is. |
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:::<!--Multiple sources including USGS and GCMT place the epicenter in either provinces, both are not wrong. Hence, discrediting the other sources wouldn't be a good representation of the diverse sources. The epicenter is along the border between the two provinces hence the location difference is expected.--> '''''[[User:Dora the Axe-plorer|Dora the Axe-plorer]]''''' ([[User talk:Dora the Axe-plorer|explore]]) 22:06, 7 April 2024 (UTC) |
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== Deadliest natural disaster in modern history? == |
== Deadliest natural disaster in modern history? == |
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<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] --> |
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== Recent death toll by AFP citing Turkish officials == |
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A [https://www.barrons.com/news/nearly-60-000-killed-in-2023-turkey-syria-quake-new-toll-528e4a39 new article by AFP] citing Turkey officials said the total death toll is 59,488 including 53,537 in Turkey. |
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The article then says the number of deaths in Syria is 4,537 in rebel-held areas and 1,414 in government-held areas. |
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Currently the Wikipedia article states 8,476 deaths in Syria according to [https://reliefweb.int/report/turkiye/devastating-earthquakes-southern-turkiye-and-northern-syria-april-6th-2023-situation-report-20-entr IBC] published in April 2023. [https://www.syriahr.com/%d8%a7%d8%b1%d8%aa%d9%81%d8%a7%d8%b9-%d8%ad%d8%b5%d9%8a%d9%84%d8%a9-%d8%a7%d9%84%d9%80-%d9%80%d8%b6%d9%80-%d9%80%d8%ad%d9%80-%d9%80%d8%a7%d9%8a%d9%80-%d9%80%d8%a7-%d8%a7%d9%84%d8%b0%d9%8a%d9%86-%d9%81/591382/ SOHR] puts the total toll at 6,795; 4,547 in rebel-held area and 2,248 in government-held area. |
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Considering the humanitarian crisis in Syria prior to the earthquake, the death toll discrepancy is not a huge surprise. However I want to know how should Wikipedia go around this. Should we provide a range for the death toll in Syria or follow the latest AFP article? '''''[[User:Dora the Axe-plorer|Dora the Axe-plorer]]''''' ([[User talk:Dora the Axe-plorer|explore]]) 13:04, 2 February 2024 (UTC) |
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 2023 Turkey–Syria earthquakes article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Q1: Why don't you rename this article 2023 Türkiye–Syria earthquake, the official name for the first listed country? A1: Because the English-language Wikipedia has a WP:COMMONNAME policy. We use names for countries and places that are the names commonly used for them in English, regardless of what official organizations use. Technically, this kind of name is known as an exonym. For example, we use the name Germany, instead of the native endonym Deutschland. If or when that general English-language usage changes (as has happened in the past with place names such as Mumbai and Beijing), the same WP:COMMONNAME policy implies that the English-language Wikipedia will necessarily also follow suit. So far, that hasn't happened. This has been discussed many times at Talk:Turkey, with the same result every time because of the common name policy; there is currently a moratorium at Talk:Turkey on further requests for name changes until 1 December 2023. Until that article is moved, this article will use Turkey in the article. |
![]() | A news item involving 2023 Turkey–Syria earthquakes was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 6 February 2023. | ![]() |
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The epicenter of the Kahramanmaras earthquake of February 6 was within the borders of west–northwest of Gaziantep, that is, Turkey. The fact that it also affected Syria does not mean that the earthquake took place in Syria. For example, 2008 Sichuan earthquake also affected Tayland, but it is not called a China-Tayland earthquake because its epicenter is in a town within the borders of China. I think the title should be changed to Gaziantep, Turkey earthquake. Zyzyyz (talk) 10:24, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia does not appeal only to Turkish viewers hence I see no reason why the title should be changed now. Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 14:52, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why does the article state, that it is the deadliest natural disaster in modern history? 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami? 130.225.188.128 (talk) 08:58, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) ❯❯❯ Raydann(Talk) 20:27, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
2023 Turkey–Syria earthquake → 2023 Turkey–Syria earthquakes – Since this was last discussed, a large number of scientific publications have appeared (currently 61 in number - they can be viewed by clicking on the isc link in the infobox) and the majority (>70%) of these refer to (in order of use) "earthquakes", "earthquake doublet" or "earthquake sequence" in the title with less than a quarter (23%) using "earthquake". Based on this there is enough evidence to support a change to "earthquakes" in the title as proposed per WP:COMMONNAME Mikenorton (talk) 20:02, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Anew article by AFP citing Turkey officials said the total death toll is 59,488 including 53,537 in Turkey.
The article then says the number of deaths in Syria is 4,537 in rebel-held areas and 1,414 in government-held areas.
Currently the Wikipedia article states 8,476 deaths in Syria according to IBC published in April 2023. SOHR puts the total toll at 6,795; 4,547 in rebel-held area and 2,248 in government-held area.
Considering the humanitarian crisis in Syria prior to the earthquake, the death toll discrepancy is not a huge surprise. However I want to know how should Wikipedia go around this. Should we provide a range for the death toll in Syria or follow the latest AFP article? Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 13:04, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]