This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Businesspeople. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.
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Further information
For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.
Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:
Delete - WP:PROMO - Five of the six sources are his own website, or otherwise interviews with him. A web search brings up Beatle George Harrison, but not this guy. The 2014 AFD on this (two keeps and one comment) failed for lack of response: . — Maile (talk) 14:45, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Upon review of article and its sources, the person in question does not meet the notability guidelines in question: the person is not (1) cited by 3rd party sources other than websites that repeat his bio as an official founder of Samuel Adams beer (2) known for originating a new concept [see point #1] (3) become a significant monument, etc. (4) He is not cited as by peers and 3rd party sources for the work that is well-known or significant. The article was written by a blocked user and could primarily serve the purpose of self promotion as defined in WP:NOTADVERT. P3D7AQ09M6 (talk)
Hi Folks, My apologies, I actually meant to nominate Harry Rubin (virologist) Late night editing got the best of me. Upon a 2nd look at this article in particular, I found new reputable secondary sources to that show indeed this Harry Rubin was indeed a Samuel Adams co-founder. I'm closing going to close this deletion nomination in favor of doing some work to improve the article itself. P3D7AQ09M6 (talk) 04:28, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe delete both of them.
Being a minor, behind-the-scenes partner of a business does not make someone notable.
An article about a politician that doesn't meet WP:NPOL. Endorsing politicians, and speaking on TV can make you appear on the news but the coverage may be your statements and quotes; same issue here. I want a community consensus on this. Safari ScribeEdits!Talk!01:48, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello safari, this man here is a notable man being discussed in schools and very popular. for some reason, he has no social media presence. 70% OF the articles i cited are all on the WP:NGRA. there are far less personalities who worked under this man such as Theodore Orji , Orji Uzor Kalu and many more who have wikipedia articles. and as a young 19 year old girl studying history i ran into this mans story in a book called "Ibeku in igbo History", which i am not sure i can cite on the internet because it's an ancient cultural hard copy book.
If you want this book i can scan it to your email. the book is uploaded on scribd.com by someone and in it, this man was mentioned, but i'm not sure if i can cite that since its a Scribd upload done in 2020 or so.
Some articles i cited also spoke about him as a person and every person growing up here in eastern region of Nigeria knew BB Apugo. You can do more research yourself on this person to see i have put in the work before submitting to wiki and my goal in wiki is not bringing people with huge online presence, but working as hard as possible to include articles that are known about in real life but not spoken about on the internet with every possible info i have.
I will continue to cite more sources and keep working to make sure i include more info and I am sure other people will to by the time they see the article on him. Yinka Williams (talk) 08:58, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you ! can i Include the link to the book on scribd ? and also if i'm using the ISBN how do I ethically include the page and chapter of the book or any more details i wish to help editors with. Thanks Yinka Williams (talk) 11:15, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete some coverage in regards to the RATP in Paris in railway journals [1], but nothing for extensive sourcing.French wiki article is also up for deletion for notability reasons, it appears to be a translation using the same sources as here. Oaktree b (talk) 23:09, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Written by a just-barely-autoconfirmed sleeper as copyright infringement from a press release. After that was stubbified, revdelled, and draftified and nobody was looking anymore, he pasted the same material back in, where it lasted until the past few hours. Should be speediable, and the only reason it isn't is because we let the good-hand socks of paid editors vote against reasonable countermeasures against advertising even as obvious as this. And, btw, EFS Facilities Group wasn't just deleted, it's currently heading very rapidly towards a blacklisting at DRV. —Cryptic19:26, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
WP:BEFORE does not reveal any further usable sources.
Delete per the source analysis and my BEFORE which did not yield any other sources that could demonstrate notability.—Alalch E.21:18, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I dont have a problem if the article is deleted if it has no merit. But why was the article blanked out just before the deletion nomination.
This a not a fair review process for deletion as the article was blanked out just before nomination.
Is this some kind of bullying thats going on? The guy is a billionaire and was voted as one of the most powerful businessman in the middle east multiple times.
Comment - Allegations of selective bullying and harassment by unregistered editors with no evidence are usually ignored, even in conduct forums, and especially in content forums. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:12, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This is overtly promotional page with no merit of its own. The sources on the page are trivial. If anyone can find any reliable secondary independent sources with indepth notable coverage on the subject and subject's achievement and work, I will reconsider my vote. RangersRus (talk) 17:19, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
should be deleted due to the lack of significant independent coverage that meets the General Notability Guideline (GNG), relying instead on primary sources, company related news and not significant mentions. LusikSnusik (talk) 10:22, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or redirect: to Nyasa Times, the company that the subject found. Subject has enough WP:GNG. For example here reported by the Telegraph, subject won theBlack British Business Person of the Year award in 2021. I also found this where subject is being the founder and the Chief Executive Officer of Malawi's leading online publication, the Nyasa Times that he found in 2006. This could be used to sustain the article per (WP:NEXIST). --Tumbuka Arch (talk) 13:19, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete interviews are a poor way to establish notability and if he owns the Nyasa Times then it isn't independent enough to establish notability. Traumnovelle (talk) 21:42, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Traumnovelle Alternatively, it makes sense to redirect it to their company on Wikipedia that the subject found, thus Nyasa Times. Again, not all sources are interviews. Furthermore, this AfD was made by someone at random who was even reported at ANI here and there is even a discussion on their talk page about their nominations. Tumbuka Arch (talk) 07:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't oppose a redirect. I looked at the references now. I presumed the sources you mentioned were the strongest sources. The strongest source appears to be the Yorkshire Evening Post but it isn't enough for notability in my opinion. Traumnovelle (talk) 07:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Non-notable local official and U.S. Senate candidate. All sources cited on the page are WP:ROTM coverage of his mayorship and Senate campaign. No real in-depth coverage of him as a person, and no indication that either his campaign or mayoral administration were considered especially notable by media outlets. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 17:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This page was created on July 13 2024, enough time has not passed to allow for adequate information including references to be added. Lombardb21 (talk) 18:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, As the mayor of one of the largest cities in his state, Elliott is a notable offical. There is a high amount of coverage dating back to several years. The Senate race page does not mention much of the information in this article, so a redirect would not really benefit anyone. Microplastic Consumer (talk) 21:57, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Kindly refrain from suggesting that other contributors have not read the relevant policies. There is no policy stating how large the population of a city must be for its mayor to be notable, and there are other factors here, because the subject is a major party nominee for national office—not, as you suggest below, the state legislature. P Aculeius (talk) 03:19, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Notable as mayor of Wheeling and the Democratic Party's nominee for U.S. Senate in 2024. There certainly will be substantial coverage of him in news sources, both during his two terms as mayor, and since declaring his candidacy for the Senate. A redirect to an article on the 2024 Senate election would only be appropriate for minor party candidates, or those who were defeated in the primary elections. The suggestion to redirect his article to the West Virginia Senate should be withdrawn; he is not a candidate for the state legislature, but the United States Senate. P Aculeius (talk) 03:19, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@P Aculeius: Please familiarize yourself with WP:NPOL, which states that "just being an elected local official, or an unelected candidate for political office, does not guarantee notability." I heavily disagree that Elliott is guaranteed to receive in-depth national coverage, and even if that were true, it still wouldn't be a valid argument--we can't maintain a Wikipedia page on the basis that the subject might eventually become notable. Also, it should have been obvious that "the WV Senate page" meant the page for the 2024 Senate race in WV. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 04:56, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please familiarize yourself with WP:NPA before you tell people that they need to read policies they're already familiar with—as you've already done twice in this conversation. There are perfectly legitimate reasons for disagreeing with you besides pure ignorance. And it's not at all obvious that you knew what you were talking about, since "the WV Senate page" presumably refers to the page about the West Virginia Senate.
U.S. Senate races are not "run of the mill" items of no interest to most readers; that suggestion is not worthy of rebuttal. And I wasn't referring to potential future coverage, but to current and prior coverage. Mayors of major cities in a state and U.S. Senate races tend to generate a fair amount of news coverage; your nomination suggests that you haven't looked beyond the currently cited sources, which would mean that the nomination doesn't comply with WP:BEFORE.
You seem to be under the impression that only national news sources are relevant, while the Wheeling Intelligencer is not; but that is one of the main newspapers in the state, and in excluding its coverage from consideration, you're the one applying non-existent standards to reach a conclusion of non-notability. The notability guidelines expressly state that state and local politicians may be notable; they do not say that their notability depends on the existence or quantity of nationwide coverage. P Aculeius (talk) 05:38, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, I didn't say that "any mayor of a small city is automatically notable"; I said that "this two-term mayor of one of West Virginia's largest cities who is now the Democratic nominee for U.S. Senate is sufficiently notable to keep." Please don't speak for me or, for that matter, for other editors—let them express their own opinions.
This article is not comparable to "Manny Cid", who is only one of eight candidates running for mayor of Miami-Dade County, having previously served as mayor of the unincorporated town of Miami Lakes, the 89th largest city in Florida, which has a council-manager government. There as here, the argument that local news coverage cannot be used to establish notability was made, and refuted. Why it's being asserted again here defies all reason. Some of those who voted to merge that article into the 2024 mayoral election for Miami-Dade County indicated that he would be sufficiently notable if he won—and became mayor.
It is more comparable to the example of Tim Sheehy, but with key differences: Sheehy is the operator of a small company in Montana that fights fires with planes and drones, not the two-term mayor of one of Montana's largest cities. The main contributor to the article had a close connection with the subject, while the second-biggest contributor concurred with redirection. Glenn Elliott has news coverage dating back to 2016 already cited in this article. P Aculeius (talk) 12:38, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@P Aculeius: I don't know where you got this idea that a mayor of a small city is automatically notable if that city happens to be located in a small state. That just doesn't make any sense. The Hill article you cited is WP:ROTM coverage, while the AP article is a little better but not proof of notability. Also, U.S. Senate nominees are not automatically notable; again, you are depicting your personal interpretation of the rules as fact. See also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hung Cao (2nd nomination), where numerous editors used "U.S. Senate nominees are not automatically notable" as their reasons for favoring deletion. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 19:59, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I repeat—stop putting words in people's mouths. Nobody in this discussion has said either of the things that you keep repeating ad nauseam. I didn't cite any articles either, so stop telling me that what I didn't say can be ignored for reasons A, B, and C. You also shouldn't be relying on WP:ROTM as though it were policy; it's only an essay. And this race has significant national implications, since its outcome will help determine whether the Republican Party is able to gain control of the U.S. Senate. The coverage is not, "person nobody's ever heard of announces candidacy," but "prominent national figure endorses candidate for his successor; control of U.S. Senate hangs in balance". So this is far from "run of the mill", even if that were a policy—which it's not.
You should learn to respect other people whose opinions on how policies apply to a set of facts differ from yours, and to accept that yours isn't the only valid point of view. If other people disagree, it doesn't mean that you need to keep bludgeoning them with the same arguments over and over, as though you can negate someone's opinion by explaining that they're wrong and just don't understand the rules as well as you do. P Aculeius (talk) 02:12, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@P Aculeius: You're making an argument that the Senate race is notable, not an argument that Elliott is notable. Every Senate election in history fits the definition of "will help determine whether the Republican Party is able to gain control of the U.S. Senate." Have Elliott or his campaign received extensive, in-depth coverage? If he loses, will people still be searching for him in 10 years? Your uncivil, angry tone isn't helping your argument. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 02:46, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seriously, just stop—I already said I considered the facts sufficient to satisfy notability, I explained why when you argued I was wrong, and I replied to your arguments when you insisted I was wrong to continue to disagree with you. You're just not listening: you can't negate people's opinions by telling them why you think they're wrong over and over. Stop telling people they need to read the policy, stop putting words in their mouths, stop filling the discussion with straw men, and stop pinging people every time you reply, as though nobody can be expected to check on a discussion they're participating in. I gave my reasons, and I don't need to keep doing it over and over and argue with every reply you keep adding without anything changing. P Aculeius (talk) 02:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You pinged me four times in less than 24 hours just to tell me that my reasons were wrong and that I needed to read policies I'm already familiar with, and assuming that I said things about policies that I plainly didn't say—multiple times, and now you're telling me repeatedly that I'm the problem for being uncivil and angry. It seems like you're the one who needs to learn how to participate in a talk page discussion. P Aculeius (talk) 13:39, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect: on the off-chance he wins the page can be reconstituted, as others have said it seems like routine coverage during an election campaign to what will be a decidedly uncompetitive race (most pollsters and forecasts have WV as a solid red flip, no polls have been conducted between Justice and Elliott. Elliott seems decidedly not notable as a result, even if he is a mayor of Wheeling, as others have also said, being a mayor of a town, any town or city, is not an inherently notable thing.
Keep. Given the totality of coverage as Mayor of Wheeling, and the totality of coverage as a major party candidate running to represent West Virginia in the U.S. Senate—at the national level, I interpret the subject of this page to be notable under relevant policies within WP:NPOL. For the same reasons, I would argue coverage of the subject is also not WP:ROTM as it pertains to political candidates.:Timothy Bellman(talk) 16:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Worth noting that this user seems to have a personal connection to Elliott. He uploaded the posed, professional headshot of Elliott on the page and tagged it as "own work." BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 19:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I agree with nom. The article does not give a reason for notability; significant coverage in independent sources is not available. All I can find are self-published and related sources. Ruud Buitelaar (talk) 23:35, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All the sources mentioned in the article are part of regular brand promotions/ interviews/ PRs. No significant coverage from independent sources. Fails GNG Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 10:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: The article currently has three sources with significant coverage, one of which is United Nations News, which refers to Omalla as "one of the most decorated female entrepreneurs in Uganda". Feel free to fix OR/CV issues, but I don't think notability is the issue here.
I strongly oppose the deletion of the article on Kirill Ilinski for the following reasons:
1. Significant Academic Contributions:
Kirill Ilinski has authored over 40 scientific articles in the field of quantitative finance, which have been cited by numerous peers, showcasing his influence and recognition within the academic community.
He has written two notable books, one of which was nominated as the best business book by PWC, underscoring the importance and recognition of his work in the business community.
2. Notable Industry Presence:
Ilinski regularly speaks at prominent industry conferences and events, indicating his role as a thought leader in his field. His lectures at St. Petersburg European University are among the most viewed on Lektorium.tv, demonstrating his impact on education and knowledge dissemination.
3. Research on Climate Adaptation:
Ilinski's ongoing research on climate adaptation, which is not yet public, holds potential for significant contributions to how governments can prepare for climate change. His recent co-authored paper, "TOWARDS THE THEORY OF FIRM'S ESG TRANSFORMATION: ESG READINESS," has been listed on SSRN's Top Ten download list, further validating his active and impactful research contributions.
4. Media References and Coverage:
While Google News may show limited hits, a comprehensive search on Google reveals multiple references and articles in reputable sources such as the Financial Times, Hedge Fund Journal, Bloomberg, Hedgeweek etc. (as well as events where he participated as a speaker). These publications highlight his professional achievements and contributions to the finance industry.
5. Independent Sources:
There are number of independent references that establish Ilinski's notability. For example, coverage in renowned financial publications and his academic contributions cited by other researchers demonstrate independent recognition of his work
If certain sections of the article do not comply with Wikipedia's policies, they can be revised or updated to meet the guidelines. Deleting the article would be an extreme measure, especially considering the potential for improvement and the significant content that does meet Wikipedia's standards. Constructive feedback and specific suggestions for improvement would be appreciated, rather than opting for deletion, which would not only undermine the comprehensive representation of his work but also limit the availability of valuable information to the public.
Also, I want to point out that Wikipedia articles for Kirill Ilinski and the company he founded - Fusion Asset Management where on Wikipedia for more then 10 years, and no one ever questioned their compliance with Wikipedia policy.
The fact that both pages were nominated for deletion (instead of suggesting improvements) just within 2 days, make me think that this is a commercially motivated attack. Tarasrybak888 (talk) 15:15, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is a lot of refbombing in this orphan article. Whilst a lot of the coverage confirms he bought businesses and bars, none of this is indepth to meet WP:SIGCOV. Just a run of the mill businessman that doesn't meet WP:BIO. LibStar (talk) 02:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete agree, while it states At the start of December in 2020, Solanki made headlines in both local newspapers and national newspapers where he gained recognition and publicity for applying to convert the ex-Wetherspoons bar, The New Baron of Hinckley, into a place of worship all the citations refer to syndicated articles by the same group of newspapers, with the same authors. Orange sticker (talk) 10:24, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Promotional BLP of a successful businessman with no real claim of notability. Various non notable awards and ROTM coverage in the form of interviews and PR profiles. Mccapra (talk) 19:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Speedy Keep : as per nomination by various editors in terms of the same GNG Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yung Miraboi Mark (2nd nomination). Clean up is just required which I would be contributing later due to my time schedule. In 2021 appeared at the Ghana national TV as a musician with one of his top song featuring Peruzzi[5]and no longer do music. In 2022, he was dragged by Nigerians for a political act [6] further details nomination 2 can be cited [7]. Nominator 2 has also been a block user for 4 years now I just noticed that. Theirs no point AFD nominator replying. Look forward to other editors as I will be busy. --Gabriel(talk to me )00:45, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Gabriel601, I don't understand this sentence: Nominator 2 has also been a block user for 4 years now I just noticed that. Theirs no point AFD nominator replying. Look forward to other editors as I will be busy.Safari ScribeEdits!Talk!19:27, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
No indication that this person is notable per the current sourcing (which is not significant coverage), nor by her association with her husband, nor as a model/artist/musician. The article is part of a walled garden about the Munshi/Munsi extended family. A BEFORE search revealed nothing about this Jayati Devi (only about others). Fails WP:GNG and WP:CREATIVE. Bringing it here for the community to decide. Netherzone (talk) 15:57, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Delete: winning a non-notable award isn't notable, the rest of the sources are puffy entertainment/lifestyle sources, not really helping notability. Oaktree b (talk) 20:55, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Passes WP:SIGCOV(both in the Nigerian media and in foreign ones). At least you can look at the Nigerian Wikipedia article and find several sources. I’m not sure about WP:NMUSIC, but it’s not the main criteria anyway. Tau Corvi (talk) 08:43, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment : If an Award has been reviewed, has a Wikipedia page and meets the WP:GNG then it’s notable. But reference from reliable source that are independent of the subject are needed to be cited for proof. The fact he has Won, being Nominated for notable awards, contributed to the notable movie Suga Suga (film) as an executive producer makes him passes WP:ANYBIO and notable. Per source cited on the article, subject passes WP:GNG. If the award section can be addressed then my vote is a Keep. Please to the AFD nominator theirs no point responding to me. I’m not here to argue unreasonably or pick sides. My word still stands per Wikipedia article guideline.--Gabriel(talk to me )19:57, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Errol Musk is not in any way notable independent of his relation to Elon Musk. He ran for public office, but was never elected, but was only elected once to a local city council, he was an engineer, but didn't do anything of note. There is nothing about him is notable other than that he was the father of Elon Musk. Ergzay (talk) 01:46, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He ran for public office, but was never elected That's actually not correct, he was elected in '72 and served until the 80s. His 1983 resignation was front page news. Feoffer (talk) 05:20, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well he wasn't "just any" councilman, he was a vocally anti-apartheid English-speaking South African politician in 1972 Pretoria! Per Isaacson and many others, that's actually a really big deal in his time and place, but damned if I can find really good English-language sourcing which actually deep-dives into that part of his life story. Feoffer (talk) 11:40, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a wikipedia page on even the contents of that 1972 city council? Did that 1972 city council do anything of note? Ergzay (talk) 00:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Errol Musk does not meet the notability guidelines despite his connection with Elon Musk. His career achievements and political work are not notable on their own. His main claim to fame is that he is the father of Elon Musk. It's crucial to adhere to WP:BLP, and keeping a separate article about only Musk's family does not meet these standards.--AstridMitch (talk) 02:14, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it's like when we do "Death of so-and-so" for notable deaths. It's a reminder to readers that the current article doesn't (yet) cover Errol's political career in the depth required of a true BLP. Feoffer (talk) 05:25, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A familial relationships article for Elon Musk would be more sane, in which case Errol Musk could be mentioned there, though I'd think it should still be just part of the Elon Musk article. Ergzay (talk) 06:30, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well that's an excellent point. I definitely think of it as a Elon sub-article: we don't need to litigate emerald mines and spousal abuse and false claims of funding or abandonment on Elon's literal BLP. Feoffer (talk) 06:52, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand what you mean by "Elon sub-article". If it's not valuable enough to put on the page on Elon Musk then it's probably not valuable enough to put on any page on Wikipedia. I'm not sure on this last point, but I think "biography of living persons" policies apply even if it's a spin-off of the main article. That's not a loophole of the rule. Ergzay (talk) 00:26, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
BLP applies to all material about living persons anywhere on Wikipedia, including talk pages, edit summaries, user pages, images, categories, lists, article titles and drafts.
BLP absolutely applies to ALL articles, I just meant we shouldn't be covering a notable abuser on one of their victim's biographical articles. Feoffer (talk) 14:25, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as creator. GNG is met, he's been covered extensively in the press and in-depth in at least two different books. Ultimately, it's not fair to Maye MuskorElon Musk to document Errol's extensive controversial public behavior on those articles, but neither is it fair to them for us simply to delete that verified information from the project. I haven't found fulltext access, but Afrikaans newspaper archive searches and the Isaacson book show Errol was a VERY notable person during his political career, long before Elon was an adult. Errol has a second claim to notability for his allegedly abusive relationships with Maye and Elon. Finally, Errol again became controversial for a marriage to a former stepdaughter (cfSoon-Yi Previn). Feoffer (talk) 04:58, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Even if this was notable, having it as a "familial relationships of" article makes 0 sense when it is basically a biography of him (focusing on his relationships because that's all the sources talk about!)
The only thing here that's not directly related to, or from publications about, Elon or his ex wife is the "having a child with his stepdaughter" thing which is not enough to have an article on PARAKANYAA (talk) 06:07, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your words carry lots of weight with me. Are you saying we should just move this content into a BLP titled Errol Musk? And if not, do you have an opinion on where we SHOULD cover what is known about Errol? We've got4differentBLPs from folks reliably alleging abuse at Errol's hands. I know @Ergzay: expressed a preference for covering it at Elon's BLP, but it seems unfair to me to single out one victim like that, when it's a multidecade pattern of abuse that pre- and post- dated Elons interactions. Errol's later promotion of conspiracy theories and admission of fathering multiple children with a stepchild obviously lend credence to their prior allegations. Feoffer (talk) 10:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, if there's to be something here, it should be a BLP. The content in this article is basically a BLP already. I believe there was already an AfD for the initial Errol Musk article though.
An alternative could be some sort of... Musk family article? I mean, his family's certainly discussed and he's certainly not the only notable member. Singling out his dad, who does not have his own article, for an article to be based around, doesn't make much sense. But if it's notable as part of his whole family then maybe, idk.
I'm not sure if either of these ideas are good, though, or if either is notable. Your point about his political career making him notable is a possibility but until sigcov related to that is presented the jury's still out. Not impossible though. PARAKANYAA (talk) 11:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you so much for this feedback.
I probably should have said somewhere that this article was created to hold content removed in Musk family (which was deleted on June 1) which had been merged from Errol Musk (merged into Musk Family in Sept 2023). I concur that a full BLP should wait for the South African source, but in the mean time, the victims really do deserve for it to be SOMEWHERE in Wikipedia.(/?) Feoffer (talk) 11:51, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Lol fair enough, I'm not on a crusade. but it's still verifiable content with exculpatory BLP implications for Elon and Maye. Feoffer (talk) 12:56, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some of this content may belong somewhere on Wikipedia, but the current article is too flawed to stand. If it is really about "familial relationships", why does it discuss his business career, his election to city council and his game lodge? Why should anyone care that Errol claimed that Elon upgraded his home security system? Astaire (talk) 13:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why should anyone care that Errol claimed that Elon upgraded his home security system?
Because it contradicts the false claims in media (sourced to Errol) of Elon's supposed abandonment of a disabled parent. Feoffer (talk) 13:19, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, any answer to your question about "why should anyone care" would be OR to put in article unless it was explicitly noted in RS. Feoffer (talk) 08:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify Weird article. Creator claims that there is more coverage of him out there, so I don't think a full delete is warranted. Either way, the article is not ready for mainspace. If the consensus ends up being to delete, that would be fine by me. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 06:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify or Delete I'm the one who submitted this, but I'm fine with either option. It doesn't make sense to have it as an article though. I'm not sure what moving it to a Draft could fix though. Ergzay (talk) 06:35, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I interpret draftify calls as me having jumped the gun by publishing it in mainspace before we got access to the sources on political career needed to make a full balanced BLP. I get it's an unorthodox title, but it's also a little bit of a blpvio to not document Errol's verifiably-checkered past somewhere, given his public attacks on family. I don't feel good about stuffing it all into the BLP of one of his victims. Feoffer (talk) 11:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The title is probably the biggest problem. Having an articles about the familial relationships of someone without having an article on the person themselves is a bit ridiculous. But there's lots of other issues beyond that, even if the page was moved, like the noteworthiness of the man himself and of anything he thinks beyond it's relation to Elon Musk. Ergzay (talk) 00:20, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and renameasErrol Musk - Numerous sources discuss his own life, so that his bio would easily pass GNG. Surely his son's fame directed attention to him, just like Maye Musk, Kimbal Musk and Tosca Musk; we've got plenty of coverage for those individuals as well, who arguably wouldn't be notably featured in the press if Elon's life hadn't attracted so much scrutiny. Ironic that notability is not inherited, though in this case the hyper-notability of one person did engender notability of various family members... — JFGtalk10:34, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is not a single direct and in-depth independent secondary article about him. Seems very non-notable business executive, clergy, motivational speaker. WorthWobble (talk) 12:06, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, hi. I'm new to Wikipedia and I'm just getting my feet wet. I've gone through the tutorials, but I have some questions. Please be patient as I work to better understand, because I'm a bit confused about notability and primary vs. secondary sources.
I'm not saying that this is a great example, but would this be a secondary source?
I apologize for the wall of text, but since there were vet editors here, I thought I should ask. These links were found with ChatGPT, but Wikipedia editing is my new rabbit hole :) Illunadin (talk) 20:42, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: as nom said, there's nearly no WP:SIGCOV about this individual. Also, WP:ANYBIO requires a well-known and significant award, which the "Oracle CX innovation award" is not, and as for the bare bones festival award, I'm doubtful as to its notability (and anyways I can't find any trace of it anywhere). — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 17:15, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some sources from the 2000s have not been properly archived, making it difficult to find digitized ones, and the awards received look quite notable for WP:ANYBIO. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.241.151.73 (talk) 10:15, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Reviewed during NPP. No indication of wp:notability or SNG. All resume type material with promotional type wording, plus material on companies and organizations that he is affiliated with. Of the 4 references, one is a brief bio, 2 have just mentions of him at an event and one is a forbes listing of him being the 26th or 56th richest man in Kazakhstan. Tagged by others since January. North8000 (talk) 20:31, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Although the editor who made this page did a mistake by creating a draft and then again creating it into the main space, maybe he is a newbie that's why....but if we look at the person's page, he was awarded the community Leader Award from the Kerala State Women's Development Corporation which is a state award from the person's home state which is in Kerala and the Fulbright Foundation’s Global Changemaker Award in 2023 which is a International award given by the US Government which i believe at least qualify the award category of the people's notability guidelines according to the guidelines written in Wikipedia. This guy also has a significant coverage in The Times of India, Economics Times , Ahmedabad Mirror which i believe is considered reliable in Wikipedia. So we have 2 of the 3 basic criteria except the national dictionary thing ....also While reading the content of these articles i don't see any kind of sponsored post written or a disclaimer in the news coverage these are just my analysis. SATavr (talk) 16:19, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It may be ignorance / new editor who wrote the draft and then made a new page, but destroyed the first edits in the first draft and deleted it in a completely unrecognizable form, added another person to it and added it to his date of birth and created a misunderstanding because of lack of knowledge?? Draft:Muhammed Faris Mannekkara Difference between revisions[9], Draft:Muhammed Faris Mannekkara 2nd Difference between revisions[10]Spworld2 (talk) 06:03, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I do agree with you. It was a stupid mistake done by this new editor and i think he lacks the patience for it and just wanted to go directly with a shortcut way for publication. Thats why he change the draft content to a different person and he thought we would'nt know lol..... I believe he has learned a lesson not to do it again and i hope he has got to know that things doesnt workout like this. SATavr (talk) 09:10, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep A before search comes up with many sources. (e.g. [1] [2]. Numerous articles featuring the names appear, the most of them in Hindi and English. Tiger-in-Action (talk) 08:13, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These articles discuss his side automobile firm, yet his Wikipedia biography hardly ever mentions this information. The autogenerated nature of these stories is not disclaimed, as is typically the case. The name of the publisher, Sunil Chaurasia, is also mentioned in The Economic Times. His social work is the subject of major pieces that don't appear to be PR or churnalism. They include original research, such as his participation in and thorough coverage of the Sankesh Foundation and the Smiles Foundation. - [3] which is covered in the Ahmedabad Mirror. Another example is his relationship with Shyalash C, his mentor, which isn't mentioned on his Wikipedia page but is confirmed as original research in Punjab Kesari - [4]. Tiger-in-Action (talk) 09:09, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Relisting. It would be nice to hear from some more experienced editors about whether sourcing is sufficient to establish notability. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, LizRead!Talk!01:04, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The person is currently serving as a Global Peace Ambassador under UN75. He has been awarded the Fulbright Award and a State Government Award from Kerala. He meets the basic criteria of WP:GNG and WP:BIO. With regards to his sources the news articles on his social work looks fine but the same cannot be said for some of his articles written about his second-hand car business found in google but considering that his Wikipedia page does not cover his car business, overall, it looks fine to me. Master rollo (talk) 11:29, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: I am seriously asking for experienced editors who frequent AFD discussions to review this article. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, LizRead!Talk!00:39, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: I only get two pages of Gnews results, most are by "staff" or puff pieces/advertorials. The Fullbright sounds promising, but without sourcing we can't confirm, nor do we have enough for notability. Oaktree b (talk) 00:51, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Best I could find was this [11]; GTranslate seems to say it's a staff piece, so likely about as unreliable as the rest of what's already in the article. Oaktree b (talk) 00:52, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest searching by his full name, Muhammad Faris Mannekkara, to find additional articles about him. Also, please check the sources listed on his Wikipedia page. it maybe possible that his articles are ranked poorly in google search engine. that's why less result are been shown but if you try his full name which act like a keyword you will find the news article. Regarding his Fulbright award, it is published in this source as well. [5].
When i am doing the Google Translate for this article - [3] it is referring the person as "she" instead of "He" and is not translating the words in a properly manner. Also the article mentions the author's name as well - Gaurav Tiwari which means it contradict the claim that it was written by multiple staff. Also there aren't any disclaimer that says this story is autogenerated. Blackwatch007 (talk) 15:44, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Life coach, serial entrepreneur, but I don't see any significant independent coverage. The only articles I see are praising the guy's amazing skills in his voice. BrigadierG (talk) 09:18, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Not sure this is Wikipedia material. There aren't any real news articles or anything - just self-promotion. Waqar💬15:29, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I have previously commented about policing of tone in sources from Africa and lack of WPBEFORE but I will assume good faith due to the plethora of interviews out there and give atleast reliable three sources that discusses the subject independently.
Delete We have independent coverage requirements to pass notability, and I don't see it on these sources. The links in the article, as well as the additional links suggested by @Reading Beans do read as if they were pulled by a self-penned biography package. If you look at the PM News article from a certain angle it looks like independent reporting, possibly just paraphrasing/rewriting but more of an editorial effort. Oblivy (talk) 10:30, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Oblivy, I usually and always disapprove of badgering of !votes but what is the proof of the non-independency of these sources? The tone? I just want to naively believe that it’s the tone. But is it? Best, Reading Beans14:51, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's the way the articles just say things about him, often things that only he would know or which would be difficult to track down. And doing so without any of the the curiosity or skepticism or contextualization one might expect from an independent journalistic exercise. Oblivy (talk) 00:57, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This may sound WP:OR but there are a lot, I mean, a lot interviews out there. Do you prefer I cite interviews (which I think is where these informations were actually gotten)? As I said earlier, we always make a mistake of judging sources from Africa with Western standards. Best, Reading Beans09:12, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you have other sources that qualify for WP:GNG feel free to add them or cite them here. I had a look at each of the existing sources, plus the ones you selected above, and made my vote based on what I saw - a bunch of puff pieces and an article announcing he got an honorary degree from an unaccredited college. This has nothing to do with misapplying Western standards. Oblivy (talk) 09:32, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Sometimes we follow the content of the article, which most often appears promotional though can be cleaned easily. Others will leave WP:GNG, and rush to additional criteria that can presume notability. However, this context presents a good narrative of the subject. It's also unfortunate that this generation will neglect someone being a migration officer (formed word) or copy writer, but in the olden days, we see people being that and still appear on sources like the current generation. No matter the promotional (which I don't seem to find) contents in he article, it doesn't depict the fact of being notable, or treated in multiple independent sources. I first was following the discussion especially when it found this articlebyVanguard as a well written non advertorial source, and it prompted me reading others. Here is my conclusion, the three Nigerian sources are all reliable per WP:NGRS, and is very satisfiable for WP:GNG. Safari ScribeEdits!Talk!19:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: We have very divergent opinions on the adequacy of sources on this subject. Before closing this as No consensus, I'll try one more relisting to see if we can iron out the differences in assessment of them. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, LizRead!Talk!06:14, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Reason for notability seems unclear in the article. Additionally, the sources are questionable in my mind. For example, the first source has a banner asking people to join their Whatsapp group and the third and fourth sources have links to their Whatsapp group. The The third and fourth sources also link to the same website, tribuneonlineng.com. The method of contacting pmnewsnigeria.com, the second source, is a Google Form, which seems unprofessional for an independent news site. Ternera (talk) 15:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you think Nigerian national dailies should not be cited, you should state so. Most news outlets do this in Nigeria (as a way of driving traffic) but this does not affect their editorial policy. If you have any issues save for this, please, let me know. Best, Reading Beans19:59, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The group even doesn't allow anybody except admins post anything. Likewise the subscription of newspapers in Europe and America, that's a good way for Nigerian sources that doesn't seek subscription. Haven't I seen such in American newspapers even? Welp, those doesn't affect the contents published by the newspaper—editorial policy like Reading Beans said. We look at the established reliable source, and how independent the content they published seems to look. Cheers! Safari ScribeEdits!Talk!14:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Ternera I will understand why you’re a bit confused here. How or where newspapers choose to be contacted from or whether a newspaper has a link to their WhatsApp channel is not in any way unprofessional. These publications can choose to put links to any of their social media, it is all part of their social media marketing strategies. All these,
you just mentioned, do not count in determining whether a source or piece is reliable, that’s not what you look at. Don’t be distracted by whether they have links to their WhatsApp channel or not or if they decide to use google forms for contact. FUN FACT: A lot of websites integrate google forms backend for their contacts page, that is not in any way unprofessional. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 07:38, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:
Statements come from the subject.
Subject won the non-notable award.
