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Posted
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msmash
ptember 03, 2025 @12:31PM
from the tough-choices dept.
Dolby Vision 2 addresses two widespread TV viewing problems in ways that will likely divide viewers and creators. The format's Content Intelligence feature uses AI and ambient light sensors to brighten notoriously dark content like Game of Thrones' Battle of Winterfell and Apple TV+'s Silo based on room brightness.
Authentic Motion grants filmmakers scene-by-scene control over motion smoothing, a feature most cinephiles despise for creating artifacts and making films look like 60fps home videos. Many filmmakers have criticized motion smoothing for undermining artistic intent. Dolby positions the feature as eliminating unwanted judder while maintaining cinematic feel. The format launches in standard and Max tiers for high-end displays.
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
byAnonymous Coward writes:
I can't go back to stuttery video. Bring on the motion smoothing, and start using high frame rate capture.
bysabbede ( 2678435 ) writes:
If you disagree with him, argue. Don't be a childish dickhead.
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bycayenne8 ( 626475 ) writes:
Motion smoothing, etc is just find IF AND ONLY IF....
I can turn it the fuck OFF....
To my eye...it just ruins content I try to watch....at least on the OLED tvs I have .....
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byPentium100 ( 1240090 ) writes:
I like high framerate video, but only if the frames are "real". Sure, when I film something, I'll do it in 50i or 50p and, in the case of watching interlaced content on a progressive TV I'll use yadif2x.
However, I do not want any motion interpolation, resolution enhancement and especially AI. If it's not in the original, then so be it.
byPentium100 ( 1240090 ) writes:
Yeah, I mean they could film at 48fps and then drop every second frame for a 24fps release. Everyone could watch what they want.
byPowercntrl ( 458442 ) writes:
You can't just drop frames without adding motion blur, otherwise the video ends up looking rather harsh.
byDantu ( 840928 ) writes:
Exactly. They did this for some of the Lord of the Rings movies and it didn't look great at either frame rate. Too much motion blur at 48 fps and not enough at 24. Only noticeable in a few scenes at least to me.
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bybill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * writes:
Same here.
I have an Android-based TCL display and I can (and do) turn it all off.
Except for volume normalization, which I have set to medium.
Very failed directors have actors whisper and light the whole scene too dark to cover up for their lack of talent.
byPowercntrl ( 458442 ) writes:
Very failed directors have actors whisper and light the whole scene too dark to cover up for their lack of talent.
Some of it is that, but mostly it's because modern TV and film audio tracks are mastered under the assumption that you actually want your eardrums blown out during the louder parts. It's all part of getting that cinema experience [youtube.com] at home.
Mainly the problem is bad software design, since ideally you should be able to boost the center/dialogue channel level without needing a separate amplifier setup, but usually you'll have to sail the high seas for your content in order to use a media player with that option
bythegarbz ( 1787294 ) writes:
To my eye...it just ruins content I try to watch....at least on the OLED tvs I have .....
It's probably a combination of you not being used to it and expecting a stutterfest, and the smoothing not working well. High frame rate recording and smoothing are different things.
Mind you your post could have been just as relevant in 1928. When people first saw colour TV they said it looks wrong and ruins what they try to watch.
bynagglerdamus ( 1131755 ) writes:
To my eye...[motion smoothing] just ruins content I try to watch....at least on the OLED tvs I have .....
OLEDs are extra jittery (compared to LCD, plasma, etc) with low-framerate content (e.g. movies).
motion smoothing used to be god-awful/extremely heavy-handed 10+ years ago, but has come a long way (though performance depends on set, manufacturer, etc).
my OLED (LG) allows you to adjust how strong the smoothing is; i find the lower settings pleasing and unobtrusive.
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bydargaud ( 518470 ) writes:
Does it correct for shakycam footage ? I hate those movies, they make me sick (and I have no problem reading a book in a car as a passenger on a mountain road), fortunately this fad is mostly gone by now...
byCAIMLAS ( 41445 ) writes:
shakycam was an abomination, a hallmark of a lack of artistic skill, in cinematographically filmmaking. I hate The Gladiator for introducing it, it's made a decade+ of films almost unwatchable for anything remotely artistic.
bywalbourn ( 749165 ) writes:
THE HOBBIT at 48 hz looked like a shitty BBC production. It looked better at 24.
byr1348 ( 2567295 ) writes:
Thankfully my Philips TV has a Filmmaker mode that skips all this post-processing nonsense. The artifacting in some movies, i.e. Lord of the Rings, is simply crazy. Moving characters look like cardboard cutouts superimposed on fixed scenery, with garbled crap all around the edges. When I saw that on the initial scene where Frodo runs through the wood to meet Gandalf, I almost returned my TV.
byZ80a ( 971949 ) writes:
If its an option, it's fine, but if it's not, then the tv is broken and should be returned, specially because it will add a shitload of input lag.
byPowercntrl ( 458442 ) writes:
I can't go back to stuttery video. Bring on the motion smoothing, and start using high frame rate capture.
Every time I see a TV playing a movie with that God awful feature enabled, I have to strongly resist the urge to smash the damn TV. Motion interpolation is nauseating.
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byolsmeister ( 1488789 ) writes:
It was borderline unwatchable on my TV. I skipped entire scenes because I could not see wtf was going on.
byIchijo ( 607641 ) writes:
I adjusted my TV to make everything a little brighter, knowing it might blow out some of the highlights but that's fine. I think directors new to HDR just don't know how to use it, they're exposing for the highlights and ignoring the shadows.
bydrinkypoo ( 153816 ) writes:
I think directors new to HDR just don't know how to use it, they're exposing for the highlights and ignoring the shadows.
Sure, but there's a whole editing step between the direction and the release where that is supposed to be fixed.
byflink ( 18449 ) writes:
If you get the exposure wrong, the information is lost, there's only so much you can do in post to make it look acceptable.
byFritzTheCat1030 ( 758024 ) writes:
I think directors new to HDR just don't know how to use it, they're exposing for the highlights and ignoring the shadows.
One of the biggest problems with dark scenes on streaming is the video compression crushes the details out of shadows and poorly lit scenes, making everything look darker than it did when it was originally edited. The Battle for Winterfell looks fine on disc, but terrible when it was originally streamed.
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bydgatwood ( 11270 ) writes:
I think directors new to HDR just don't know how to use it, they're exposing for the highlights and ignoring the shadows.
One of the biggest problems with dark scenes on streaming is the video compression crushes the details out of shadows and poorly lit scenes, making everything look darker than it did when it was originally edited. The Battle for Winterfell looks fine on disc, but terrible when it was originally streamed.
Even ignoring that, display brightness is nonlinear, and so is the human eye's brightness response. On the output side, small changes in brightness result in big difference in perception, so everything close to white looks the same. On the eye side, though, as soon as there's something bright in the scene, your irises stop down, and your ability to perceive detail in the shadows goes to s**t because there's not enough light.
We see basically about 10 stops [wolfcrow.com] at any given time. So if the contrast ratio of th
byTorodung ( 31985 ) writes:
Mod parent up. That's the problem. They're gee-whizzing on the highlights and ignoring scene integrity.
byPresence Eternal ( 56763 ) writes:
Trying to get use out of HDR is like trying to use Linux for gaming in 2015 so that your user experience will be BETTER. I suggest you disable it and accept the sunk cost of a technology that is not being authentically marketed or implemented.
Put HDR on your "Oh boy, a new feature to disable on every new device." list and get on with life.
byzlives ( 2009072 ) writes:
right next to my 3d glasses
byTorodung ( 31985 ) writes:
Well, my TV is 800 nits peak, and there I agree. It's not up to snuff. It's not even up to the informal HDR10 standard, which is 1000-4000 nits peak. HDR10, informally is supposed to have at least 1000 nits peak.
My computer monitor is 1000 nits. At monitor range, some of my games are fabulous with this enhancement. It was as revolutionary as hardware T&L, tessellation, and bloom for me. I would definitely buy an HDR monitor again.
But on a TV, under typical ambient living room lighting, yeah. Underwhelmi
byMalc ( 1751 ) writes:
All HDR requires 10-bits. HDR-10 is PQ transfer characteristics with metadata about the master display colour volume and light levels and BT.2020 colour gamut. Without the metadata, itâ(TM)s just PQ10 HDR.
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byflink ( 18449 ) writes:
I do think it highly depends on the implementation. On an OLED screen capable of 1400+ nits, it looks great. On a budget LCD with only like 32 zones, it makes dark scenes just look muddy. You are better off with vanilla 4k SDR in that case.
bylsllll ( 830002 ) writes:
For a second I thought you said "Salo" and thought "Man! That's brave to post that you've watched Salo!"
bydargaud ( 518470 ) writes:
Yuk, you bring back bad memories. That movie sure stinks and sucks, in all senses of the terms.
byTorodung ( 31985 ) writes:
Yeah. For stuff like that I just turn HDR off. My wife and I call it "dark-o-vision." If there's any ambient light in the room at all, it's unwatchable. We're not all watching in home cinemas with all the lights out.
Especially when the entire scene is unwatchable so that fireplace flame can really stand out!
byMalc ( 1751 ) writes:
Silo was no problem on my SDR TV. Great show.
byserviscope_minor ( 664417 ) writes:
4k, 60FPS, HDR all are higher information (well kinda for HDR) and hence better for realism.
The trouble is the filming wasn't done in Winterfell, Mordor or Endor, it was done on a sound stage somewhere with added CGI and that's what better realism is desperately trying to render against the will of the director.
With that said I find 24fps can be horribly juddery.
Also I don't watch enough today that I want to dedicate space to it, so my setup is something a cinephile tech nerd would cry at. Works for me unti
bydrinkypoo ( 153816 ) writes:
I find 24fps can be horribly juddery.
It seems like fewer and fewer sets have a 24 Hz mode...
byTorodung ( 31985 ) writes:
It's fine that you don't want 24fps. Turn on motion smoothing. Chances are, it's already on. Your life is easy.
It's not fine that a standard is taking away the choice from people who hate "the soap opera effect." I have motion smoothing turned off for everything but sports.
I am grateful for motion smoothing when I'm watching football. User preferences should be worth something.
The problem is taking control away from the viewer because "Dolby knows better." I don't understand why software is developed withou
byserviscope_minor ( 664417 ) writes:
It's fine that you don't want 24fps. Turn on motion smoothing. Chances are, it's already on. Your life is easy.
It's not fine that a standard is taking away the choice from people who hate "the soap opera effect.
Easy, mate! I was making mild conversation about a preference I sometimes have. I'm not some Orwellian apologist for big motion smoothing trying to force you to turn this on.
I couldn't say about these TVs. I don't own a TV in the sense of a device sold under that moniker with an excrable UI. I watch
bydfghjk ( 711126 ) writes:
"The trouble is the filming wasn't done in Winterfell, Mordor or Endor, it was done on a sound stage somewhere with added CGI and that's what better realism is desperately trying to render against the will of the director."
So you say, based on nothing. If only professional CGI houses thought to consider the will of the director.
byserviscope_minor ( 664417 ) writes:
I understand smug condescension is more or less required here, but the word "render" has a broader meaning than the narrow computer graphics sense. Since we've gone down that road I will reply in kind.
Reality is a sound stage plus CGI. The director does not want reality, because they do not want you to feel you are watching a sound stage work CGI on top. Your TV is doing a better job of representing the art work (rendering) reality than before. You do not want reality.
byPPH ( 736903 ) writes:
... film noir.
byTorodung ( 31985 ) writes:
... user choice. Control over what you own. etc.
byflink ( 18449 ) writes:
You don't have to shoot in HDR, and even if you do, just because the dynamic range is available doesn't mean you have to use the full gamut. Does every scene filmed in color have a full spectrum rainbow in it? No? Then we also don't need 1000nits of contrast in every scene either.
byBrendaEM ( 871664 ) writes:
So, an encoding and DRM company thinks it knows best?
bydfghjk ( 711126 ) writes:
Yes, it does think that. Imagine, an industry-leading "encoding" company thinks it knows best about encoding. If only they'd consult ./ trolls like you, they could get set straight.
byThoolooExpress ( 9311797 ) writes:
Seriously I'm tired of all of this discussion of what "filmmakers want," what about what I want? What I want is bright, clear pictures all the time, loud, clear dialogue, and quiet audio effects and music. Call me tasteless, but most of the time I have no control over ambient lighting and need to keep the volume under control to avoid disturbing people I live with.
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byZarhan ( 415465 ) writes:
Seriously I'm tired of all of this discussion of what "filmmakers want," what about what I want? What I want is bright, clear pictures all the time, loud, clear dialogue, and quiet audio effects and music. Call me tasteless, but most of the time I have no control over ambient lighting and need to keep the volume under control to avoid disturbing people I live with.
Agree. I had a Philips Natural Motion(tm) tube 20+ years ago, and for PAL (25 fps) pictures it interpolated and doubled the frame rate to 50. For
byPentium100 ( 1240090 ) writes:
I prefer 50fps, but I do not want interpolation. If it's not in the original, then so be it. When I film something it's in 50p or 50i (which can be deinterlaced in to 50p), but if the original was 24fps, I do not want the TV to make up information that isn't there.
SDTV video is interlaced and when watched on a CRT TV, 50i looks almost as good as 50p, assuming the source is actually "video" and not film.
byMalc ( 1751 ) writes:
Film makers create their content for ideal viewing situations. Few of us have this so why shouldnâ(TM)t we have the tools to tweak the video and studio settings? Modern object based audio like AC-4 and MPEG-H should give you this control too.
bythegarbz ( 1787294 ) writes:
what about what I want?
Go in the settings and set them up the way you want. The options are literally there for you including adding audio compression to address your desires (a required feature of any Dolby / THX certified audio system).
Call me tasteless, but most of the time I have no control over ambient lighting
That's what this feature is for. It's literally made with you in mind.
byAmiMoJo ( 196126 ) writes:
The producers don't want to accept that their movie is just some throwaway bit of media that often times people just want to consume so they can keep up with the story and get to the better stuff. They want to believe that it's going to be an experience people set up their home cinema for.
It would be very easy for them to provide a decent sound mix that keeps dialogue intelligible and limits dynamic range without sounding flat.
byJakFrost ( 139885 ) writes:
Yet another standard to add to the confusion. Maybe the new features to control framerate per scene won't create yet more problems with computers, TVs, Receivers, and media players because right now it's all a horrible mess.
DolbyVision has a number of profiles all of which are crap like Profile 5 which is DV only and no backwards compatiblity so even my compliant and licensed TV setup fails to decode it and I get crappy green and purple look since the TV won't switch to DV mode most of the time. That Prof
byTorodung ( 31985 ) writes:
I remember when I bought my current TV (in 2016) and I specifically asked for 1080p because I thought there would be a price break. They were actually more expensive.
So I got 4k, and everything is upscaled 1080p anyway. It would have been nice to have native resolution for that. I guess they were cheaper to make? Only recently has 4k content been available for streaming, after buying in 2016. It took 7-9 years. I did not bother to buy any 4k BDs to replace my library, it was throwing money in the fireplace, and streaming has only recently caught up.
And all it is is extra data in my situation. IMO, 4k is not significantly better at 55". I think you need 90" or more for it even to matter. I will never own a TV that size.
I do not want this standard or this feature. I expect backlash will force manufacturers to restore the option to turn it the hell off. But they seem very dug in.
"The soap opera effect" is well known. A not insignificant amount of people don't like it. I'm sure their market data shows this, as TVs are connected devices and they can just look at the user settings. Do they have the data to support deprecation? I doubt it.
So back to the original question. Is Dolby Vision 2 going to be cheaper? Am I going to pay a premium for my own choice? Will sets without Dolby Vision 2 even be available in a few years?
Is it time to buy a new TV so I can get at least 5-7 more years of my own choices about something I own?
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bythegarbz ( 1787294 ) writes:
Only recently has 4k content been available for streaming, after buying in 2016.
Netflix offered 4K streaming at least 1 year before I moved overseas, that was in 2015. You weren't looking or you specifically weren't buying, just like you did for Bluray. It seems like your argument boiled down to "I bought a TV that could do X, but couldn't be arsed sourcing X"
IMO, 4k is not significantly better at 55".
You are missing two variables. Distance, and your prescription. Your opinion is meaningless until you include both as it is impossible for us to judge whether it can be agreed with.
I do not want this standard or this feature. I expect backlash will force manufacturers to restore the option to turn it the hell off. But they seem very dug in.
There's nothing about this that in any way indica
byAmiMoJo ( 196126 ) writes:
You might be better off spending some money improving your viewing room, to reduce light glare on the screen. A decent soundbar will help with badly mixed audio too.
byregistrations_suck ( 1075251 ) writes:
I want a picture I can see.
I want speech I can clearly hear.
I don't want to be deafened by explosions and other useless content because I need to have the volume high enough to hear the speech.
I don't want to have to turn subtitles on, so I know what is being said, as actors mumble through various ambient noise and other impediments to hearing dialog.
I don't care about the "cinematic experience." That experience is absolutely shitty, and if I wanted it, I would go to the cinema.
I don't care about "the big
bythegarbz ( 1787294 ) writes:
I want a picture I can see.
I hear you man, may I recommend Dolby Vision 2 HDR? You can start by reading TFS.
byregistrations_suck ( 1075251 ) writes:
I read it. What about?
byrsilvergun ( 571051 ) writes:
Pretty much everyone is dumping 4K players because the industry insisted on impossible to implement DRM. It's even starting to get difficult to find Blu-ray burners with LG dropping out of the market along with basically all the other big players.
So I don't expect to see a lot of uptake on these kind of features. You might see a couple of tech demos but that's going to be it. The streaming services might play with it a little but they are starting to get cost conscious.
I am getting sick and tired of
byShakes Fist ( 10502847 ) writes:
...in the settings so I can turn it off. I use my TV for gaming and all that added shit just ruins what my (more expensive than the TV) graphics card produces.
Doubtless it'll be used by the same idiots that connect their TV directly to the internet.
byMirnotoriety ( 10462951 ) writes:
Aren't you just sick of AI being mentioned in each story as a panacea for everything. A small circuit board with a light sensitive diode that adjusts the Gamma correction on ambient light could do the same.
bysabbede ( 2678435 ) writes:
And I bet that's all it is, but the marketing department was involved. They only seem to know two letters.
bymarkdavis ( 642305 ) writes:
>"Authentic Motion grants filmmakers scene-by-scene control over motion smoothing"
As long as it can be disabled on our devices so there is NO MOTION SMOOTHING EVER. I am fine with whatever crap they want to slap out there.
>"despise for [...] making films look like 60fps home videos."
That is *EXACTLY* what it looks like to me. I absolutely HATE it. Maybe I am just too old to change and I need the lower framerates to help suspend disbelief or be in the right mindset or something. I don't know or car
bystikves ( 127823 ) writes:
There is basically nothing wrong with the current Dolby Vision.
Why? The standard is still beyond what TVs can physically give us. The format goes up to 12-bits, 10,000 nits and covers Rec.2020 and has dynamic tone mapping to TVs based on source metadata and display capabilities. Basically no off the market TV can reach that. Anything over 2,000 nits is still a luxury item.
And if this gets somehow obsolete, there are simple ways to expand it without making fundamental changes. The entire reason for DV over s
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