This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Blackrocks Brewery article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Beer, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Beer, Brewery, and Pub related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BeerWikipedia:WikiProject BeerTemplate:WikiProject BeerBeer articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Companies, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of companies on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CompaniesWikipedia:WikiProject CompaniesTemplate:WikiProject Companiescompany articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Food and drinkWikipedia:WikiProject Food and drinkTemplate:WikiProject Food and drinkFood and drink articles
Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review WP:Trivia and WP:Handling trivia to learn how to do this.
Add the {{WikiProject Food and drink}} project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects, select here.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Michigan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Michigan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MichiganWikipedia:WikiProject MichiganTemplate:WikiProject MichiganMichigan articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk pageorWikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
... that a fence running around Blackrocks Brewery is decorated with hundreds of used skis? Source: "Surrounding the property are hundreds of old skis nailed to the fence like insistent vines." [1]
ALT2:... that Blackrocks Brewery was created by two unemployed pharmaceutical salesmen? Source: "The two former pharmaceutical salesmen said if either of them lost their jobs, they would start the brewery." [2]
New enough, long enough. The article itself is cited, neutral, and does not contain noticable copyvios from reading the cited article and Earwigs. AGF for sentences where only the Magnaghi source is provided. Hook 1's "hundreds of used skis" is a bit unclear in terms of the actual number of skis: the source seems to imply hundreds as in "a lot of skis", while the hook seems to imply the literal meaning of hundred. I personally prefer ALT2 since the two seeminng unrelated fields makes the hook more interesting.
Looking at the sources first. What makes the following reliable?
marquettemagazine.com -- Per the note at the end of the story it was owned and run by one person at the time the story appeared, though it now seems to be corporately owned.
growlermag.com
I see the only source for the details on the notable beers table is the brewery itself. If that's so, are those details truly worth including? Should we just list the beers identified as notable by other sources rather than add these details?
"This practice expanded during the COVID-19 pandemic, when people were forbidden from congregating indoors, to campfires and tents": suggest "During the COVID-19 pandemic, when people were forbidden from congregating indoors, they added campfires and tents."
"the taproom-adjacent property at": can we just say "the property next door at"?
"They also built in a proper stage for musical acts": I don't think you need "proper".
"The city commission required Blackrocks to add noise dampening around that patio": I was wondering about zoning and how they got permission to put a bar in a residential neighbourhood. Is there more information about that?
"gave patrons a custom large ceramic mug which are hung in the taproom" number mismatch between subject and verb.
"The mugs held a greater quantity of beer that would be sold at the regular price": if I understand this correctly, how about "The mugs held more beer than the glasses given to patrons without mugs, but could be filled at the same price"?
Any more details available about the golden ticket? I'm not quite clear how that works or what one would have to find.
Thanks, Mike Christie. Really, really appreciate these thorough thoughts.
Marquette Magazine: Good question. I'm realizing that I confused Marquette Magazine with Marquette Monthly, which is a longstanding little magazine published and distributed locally on paper (in addition to online these days). I believe the only info Marquette Magazine supported was the exact opening date, so I removed it as that's covered by Magnaghi.
Growler's pandemic closure was covered by a variety of regional news sources, e.g. the Star Tribune and St. Paul Pioneer Press, so I treated this as an established outlet for the purposes of RS.
Property next door: fixed. There was a thought I had around distinguishing that property from the canning building, but the context around that sentence makes it very clear what we're referring to.
Proper stage: fixed
Noise dampening: I lived in Marquette, so I personally know that noise has been a concern in the surrounding neighborhood. The brewery is located on a local commercial corridor, and you can see all the other stores aligned north/south on Google Maps/similar + that just about everything west and east of it is residential. But strangely, the only other source I could find was a one I removed the other day. It's probably borderline reliable in the sense that the person running it back then was an established journalist before starting that blog (and that blog was referenced in local news outlets), but I didn't think I could prove that under Wikipedia's definition, let alone FAC's. I'd welcome your thoughts on if there's a better way to handle this, as I'm at a dead end.
Golden tickets: It's a literal golden ticket that they hide on public land and give clues to on social media. A treasure hunt for adults, basically. I've added a few extra details. Ed[talk][OMT]20:16, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mike Christie: Whoops, I missed that line! I originally had those beers named in the prose, but that many of them over a few sentences felt like a lot. I ended up taking the table idea from Bell's Brewery#Beers. I could drop the ABV/IBU fields and everything in the notes column except "discontinued"? (The styles are effectively all covered in the secondary sources.) Or it could go back to prose? Ed[talk][OMT]05:55, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, I think we can keep the table if the brewery itself is only the source for some of the details, and those columns seem fine to source to the brewery. Do the other sources identify these beers as notable in some way, as opposed to simply mentioning them in passing? I'm asking if we can justify this table specifically as "these are the notable beers", rather than just ones that happen to have been mentioning in passing in third party reviews. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:46, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mike Christie: I see! I'd say 5–9 are mentioned in passing in 1–2 sources max, particularly this MLive article, and under that standard could be removed. (And I've done so.) Grand Rabbits/Coconut Brown have also gotten brief attention, but in many more sources because they were standouts and widely distributed early on. 51K, Mykiss, and Honey Lav have gotten more descriptive write-ups, especially the last one there. Ed[talk][OMT]17:33, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@The ed17: Thanks for your work on this article, which I discovered from a notification at WikiProject Food and drink. I don't want to step on toes, but I've shared a restructure for your consideration. It is a simpler framework with Description, History, and Reception, but I don't feel strongly if you prefer the previous structure. I've self-reverted, but you're welcome to restore or implement any of my changes if you prefer. Good luck at FAC! ---Another Believer(Talk)16:44, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Another Believer! Thanks very much for the proposal, and sorry for the delay while I've been away for the US holiday weekend. I like where you're going, but part of the description/location section also contains history, so I'll think about how to tweak it! Ed[talk][OMT]03:21, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Still thinking about this, but I'll take any actions post-FAC. I'd like to avoid disrupting that process, and it shouldn't change the reviewing experience as it's a content reorg rather than major update. Ed[talk][OMT]03:41, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I removed this paragraph from the article as Bells Brewery is no longer a "craft" brewery under the Brewers Association's definition. That would move Blackrocks up one place alone, and they've also significantly increased production since 2021 (passing Keweenaw in the process).
As of 2021[update], Blackrocks was the ninth-largest brewery in Michigan by total production, rising 17% from the COVID-affected year prior.[1] Its production that year made it the second largest brewery in the Upper Peninsula behind the Keweenaw Brewing Company,[1] and raised it up from tenth place a few years earlier.[2]
New enough, long enough. The article itself is cited, neutral, and does not contain noticable copyvios from reading the cited article and Earwigs. AGF for sentences where only the Magnaghi source is provided. Hook 1's "hundreds of used skis" is a bit unclear in terms of the actual number of skis: the source seems to imply hundreds as in "a lot of skis", while the hook seems to imply the literal meaning of hundred. I personally prefer ALT2 since the two seeminng unrelated fields makes the hook more interesting.
