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Talk:Stargazy pie

Stargazy pie (final version) received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which on 21 November 2023 was archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

	Stargazy pie has been listed as one of the Agriculture, food and drink good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassessit.
Article milestones Date Process Result January 10, 2011 Good article nominee Listed
	A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on January 11, 2011. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the Cornish delicacy Stargazy pie (pictured), which includes pilchards protruding through the crust, was designed to be fun and amusing to children?

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Stargazy pie/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: J Milburn (talk) 01:48, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Now, this looks like a wonderfully weird, quaint, gloriously British topic. The sort of thing for which Wikipedia can be great.

• "baked pilchards along" Comma after "pilchards"?  Done
• "The story of The Mousehole Cat is based upon the story of Tom Bawcock, featuring the "Star-gazy" pie and Mark Hix won BBC's Great British Menu with a variant of the dish." This line feels a little tacked-on; perhaps rephrase to something like "The story of Bawcock was popularised by Antonia Barber's children's book The Mousehole Cat, which featured the "Star-gazy" pie. In [year], a variant of the dish was given to [person] after..." [you get the idea]  Done
• "based fish pie which is traditionally based" Repetition  Done
• "amusing to children[1] — The" comma after "children", lose the dash and decap?  Done
• "appetising and it has even been" Split the sentence  Done
• "in "Yuck! Disgusting things people eat" by" What is this? An article? Book?, done, but please check
• "New York Daily News" Link, italics if it's a newspaper/periodical  Done
• "Snake Whiskey and deep fried tarantula" Links to either of these if appropriate? Don't be scared of redlinks if nothing appropriate exists  Done
• "Tom Bawcock's Eve it is served in the Mousehole pub, The Ship Inn, sometimes after a re-enactment of the legend." Where are these? Also, "and" between the pub names?  Not done - the single pub "The Ship Inn" is in Mousehole. The line "the Mousehole pub" is saying that The Ship Inn is in Mousehole. Zangar (talk)
  • Ah. That wasn't that clear, could it perhaps be rephrased? J Milburn (talk) 22:22, 8 January 2011 (UTC) - now  Done Worm 13:05, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Perhaps a vague date, rather than "200 years ago"?  Done- Well, I've changed it to a date, and am more confident than "200 years ago" (google "Tom Bawcock 16th Century"), but I can't find any source I'm happy with as reliable. Possibly Webster's online dictionary?
• "As Christmas approached the villagers" Comma after "approached"  Done
• Who is "Morton Nance" in the quotebox? - wikilinked
• "there was fish inside" That there were?  Done
• "efforts of Tom Bawcock, sees the" Lose the comma  Done
• "stargazy pie during the evening with a procession of handmade lanterns, before eating the stargazy pie" repetition of "stargazey pie"  Done
• "the end of December included" comma after "December"  Done
• "Morton Nance" Who is he?  Done, adequate description?
• "Old Cornwall" Italics for magazine names  Done
• "Tom Bawcock suggesting it was" Comma after "Bawcock"  Done
• Can we have a cite for the last line of "origins"? Also, perhaps confirm in the quotebox that the song was written by him, not that it is quoting him?  Doneit wasn't written by him, source confirms.
• The fish names need better linking- sand eel is a very general name, but a link to that article is fine. Herring and Common ling are the other links you want. "Dogfish" in this context could refer to a number of species, but I think a link to Scyliorhinus is the best you could do.  Done
• "with pilchards or herring as available" what does that mean?  Done
• If most of that section is referenced to the same source, could we have a cite at the end of each para?  Done
• "some which" of?  Done
• "Not to mention the alternatives" Rephrase?  Done
• "through which the fish heads and even tails protrude" that's already been discussed- perhaps lose the "even"? "sometimes tails" perhaps?  Done
• "Influence of stargazy pie on culture" isn't the best section title.  Done
• "The Mousehole Cat" should be italicised  Done
• "black and white cat Mowzer" Why italics?  Done
• "Great British Menu" Again, italics  Done
• "a mutton drive" What's that?  Done
• "unusual pies of Cornwall is that they were" comma after "Cornwall"  Done
• "The Devil's Coits, etc" Italics if it's a book  Done - it's a chapter in a book, does it need italics?
  • Chapters should be in quotemarks, but perhaps it would be better to name the book as a whole rather than the chapter. J Milburn (talk) 22:22, 8 January 2011 (UTC) - now  Done[reply]
• "Robert Hunt" Dablink Done
• Could the nature of the book be explained? When was it published? What's it about?  Done I think I've covered it now.
• "Poldark" italics  Done
• "Ladies in Lavender" Italics, comma after "Lavender"  Done
• "stargazy Pie" Random caps?  Done
• "Britain's Best Dish" Italics  Done
• "The Lighthouse Keeper's Cat" italicssss (and I remember that book; I worked at a bookshop, and it was very popular with local primary school teachers. Shame we don't have an article...)  Done
• ""Starry Gazey Pie"" Italics, not quotes  Done
• "which band member, Daniel Tashian, remembered" either "a bandmember", or lose the commas  Done
• Cites 4, 7, 12 and 20; author names are formatted differently from the others  Done
• "BBC News" shouldn't be in italics  Done
• Refs could do with more links- any notable authors, publishers or publications, links to the articles don't hurt.
• I don't think the link to the bacon portal, the bacon cat or the bacon navbox belong here. There's practically no mention of bacon, and it's hardly a defining feature. Portal:Cornwall would be much better.  Done

Despite the fact I wouldn't choose the pie in a restaurant, I love this article. I think it'd make a great GA, and I don't think it would take much more to get it ready for FAC. A topic like this would make a great featured article. I'm placing it on hold for now while you look into my suggestions above- I'm watching the page, but feel free to ping me on my talk page when you're done. J Milburn (talk) 02:30, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review, I'll go through your comments, and strike them out when I've done them. Anyone else please feel free to have a go as well. Cheers Zangar (talk) 14:59, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've finished what I can do for the moment, unforunately I'm a little busy in real life at the mo. Anyone else please feel free to finish the tasks I didn't have time to do the leg work for. Cheers Zangar (talk) 20:03, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone through and I think I've covered everything except the "Refs could do with more links". I'll keep looking, but I'm not certain how much more we'll get. J Milburn, was there anything specific you were thinking of? Even if it's something that will help in moving to featured status. Worm 13:01, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I was meaning wikilinks- I've gone through and added a few, as well as made a few formatting-y fixes in the article itself. I'm happy to promote this to good article status now. Are you interested in pushing towards FAC? I certainly think it'd make a good FA. I'll have a think on things that would be helpful in preparation for FAC. J Milburn (talk) 14:03, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Without a doubt. Any thoughts would be appreciated, and I'll put it in for peer review at some point. I agree it'd make a very good featured article, and it's the sort of thing I'd love to see on the Main Page! Oh and thanks for all your help thus far (I see what you mean by links, was going down a very different route) Worm 14:08, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok- well, obviously, expansion is going to be on the books. I'm not sure how much more there is to say, but I'd strongly suspect there are some other books which talk about it. Perhaps a section discussing responses to it? Just a thought, not worth it unless you have a few. Be prepared to defend this as a reliable source, as it will probably be challenged at FAC. Before nominating, it would be worth contacting a copyeditor just to smooth over the text a little. There's not much I can criticise in the article, but it is currently a little shorter than a lot of FACs; not a problem in and of itself, but it may well mean people are that little bit more critical. Best of luck, do let me know if you send it through another process. J Milburn (talk) 14:54, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have serious doubts about this. I just asked my Cornish friend Gail whether she'd ever heard of this, and she didn't stop laughing for several minutes. Her opinion: "Clotted cream goes on scones, and that's about it. I think someone's having someone on here." So - reputable citation, please! Kay Dekker (talk) 11:37, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is your friend really Cornish or does she just live in Cornwall? To say that "clotted cream goes on scones and that's about it" demonstrates that she knows next to nothing about Cornish food and its history. Using the traditional method, clotted cream takes about 36 hours to make; do we really think that our forebears would go to all that time and effort to prepare something just to smear on a scone? By the way of course, the traditional cream tea used splits not scones, scones being a more recent variant as they are quicker and easier to make than splits which are basically a soft, slightly sweet bread roll. In less heath-conscious times, clotted cream was extensively used in Cornish cookery, not just as a topping for pies, tarts and puddings, but as an ingredient in pasties and pies. Additionally, people did put cream onto food in ways that we would now find unpalatable; my grandfather always put a spoonful of cream on a pasty and an uncle always put a dollop onto his breakfast fried eggs...in farmhouse kitchens such as my grandmother's, there was almost always a bowl of clotted cream on the table at meal times and everyone had their favourite way of eating it. We should not forget that the past is definitely "another country" and they did do things differently there; we should be aware that they did not, for a variety of reasons, share our prejudices and practices about food. Personally I would not eat stargazy pie with or without clotted cream (and it was in any case more of a celebratory or festival dish than an everyday meal, but we cannot state with any certainty that nobody ever put clotted cream on a helping of stargazy pie, just because we in the 21st century find the idea disgusting. (Maryjane22 (talk) 11:22, 4 March 2014 (UTC))[reply]

Honestly I feel as if the "opinion" presented in that NY news article is wholly misguided. They have Stargazy pie on the same list as scorpion on a stick and deep-fried river frog - perhaps someone forgot to mention to our dear American cousins that you don't actually eat the heads (well some might). Does this opinion belong in the article at all? I can also think of plenty more disgusting foods than what's on the list. They even listed a totally normal-looking squid. --Porthenys (talk) 14:55, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

One urban legend, if the term can be applied to Cornwall, has it that the dish is just an elaborate practical joke inflicted by the locals on unsuspecting tourists, and that no self-respecting Cornish type would actually eat it themselves, except as the result of a drunken wager. Mr Larrington (talk) 22:39, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]